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Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#541

Post by BirdieNZ »

fbdab103 wrote: post #461
blagie wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my area, if I were to spend $50k renovating my home, the value would increase by approximately $0. If I were to spend $300k renovating my home, the value would increase by approximately $100k. The only real increase in home value comes from additions which add bedrooms. If I were to spend money converting an attic, a basement, or adding an add-on, I'd probably come out even at the sale. And renovations are quickly…

>I'm much better off doing that right before a sale. I would love to see industry averages on if pre-sale renovations make any sense at all. Considering the outright financial expenses, possible financing, potentially weeks/months of organizing contractors, dealing with overages, delaying the house sale, yada yada. If the work takes more than a week (so not just appliances, painting, etc) is there generally a positiv…

> I would love to see industry averages on if pre-sale renovations make any sense at all. Considering the outright financial expenses, possible financing, potentially weeks/months of organizing contractors, dealing with overages, delaying the house sale, yada yada.

They must surely make sense, given that there are people who "flip" houses (buy a house, do a quick paint/bathrooms/kitchen renovation on it and sell it for a nice markup).

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#542

Post by vouaobrasil »

speakfreely wrote: post #157
osigurdson wrote: post #122

Pure trash. Be yourself, emulate whoever you want (or no one). Do what feels right. If someone looks down on you for riding a bike to work (regardless of your current "status"), #1 they are idiots and their respect and admiration is worth zero and #2 choke them out :). Life is too short for such ridiculous minutia.

Would love to set a 10 year reminder to check in on how this life strategy has worked out.

Seems to work pretty well for me, and I'm not rich and never have been. But I've always been very happy not caring about what other people think or making an impression.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#543

Post by Obscurity4340 »

eternalban wrote: post #103
Obscurity4340 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top shelf power play. This guy Zooms

You missed the part where the maid serves little burgers on buns as lunch.

Honestly prefer sliders. They're cute and you can gauge them easier than their club-sized counterparts.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#544

Post by Obscurity4340 »

notfromhere wrote: post #501
988747 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it's just a miscommunication: The boss was throwing the party with the intention of everyone having a chance to relax and have fun, but everyone else saw it as a career opportunity and "dressed for success".

Then the boss doesn't understand that people aren't not going to treat him like their boss so long as they work for him. Ultimately that guy signs their paychecks, that dynamic is going to be unequal for the entirety of that relationship.

MichaelScott Syndrome

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#545

Post by fbdab103 »

WalterBright wrote: post #376
steveBK123 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you have the money and interest, spend it. But people often conflate "investment" & consumption when its anything related to home renovation. I'd still argue these types of "hobbies" are 90% consumption, and for most of the people I know.. usually financed with loans. No one I know with a $100k kitchen cooks any better than my poor immigrant grandmother did.

Think of it like a machine shop. Expensive tools work way, way better than cheap ones. I also have a restaurant grade toaster. It costs quite a bit more than the usual toasters do. But the usual ones would always break after a year or two. The restaurant toaster makes better toast, and has worked fine for 25 years now. It was actually cheaper to get the restaurant grade one over the long haul.

What are you doing to your toasters? My toaster had a good 10+ year run before I ultimately gave it away because I purchased a toaster oven. This was a Target/Walmart unremarkable kit that must surely have cost <$40, most likely something around $20 because I was a broke college kid.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#546

Post by themacguffinman »

notfromhere wrote: post #500
themacguffinman wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an odd take on the butter scenario. The obvious answer to your dad's question is "because although churning your own butter is not necessary, it can make a fresher and more interesting-tasting product than mass produced butter you buy at a store". When I look for restaurants that churn their own butter, I'm not looking to show off my status as someone who can afford unnecessary labor, I am actually "just doing…

It's both. To that dad, making your own butter was not a cultural signal showing your dedication to getting good flavor from butter, it just meant you were poor. If you could buy butter at the store, you were rich. As someone who grew up in a second world country, things like making your own butter or having your own chickens were just a sign of poverty, not a signal of distinct taste.

That's not a status signal, it has practical non-status value. It can be fresher and taste better. You don't need to be upper or middle class to enjoy the taste of self-made butter, anyone, including the dad, can enjoy it. I'm not trying to imply that I have a higher status because I prefer the taste of artisanal butter. Just saying that out loud sounds absurd to just about anyone. What, poor/low-status people can't taste artisanal butter cultures?

Poor people in Western countries where even the poor buy supermarket produce will sometimes comment on the poor quality of modern mass market produce. You don't need to be in a different class or playing status games to taste the difference. If I look for an artisanal food, it's because it tastes better.

Edit: probably a more direct rebuttal is that the accusation is "They have an image they try to cultivate, even if only unconsciously" which means the person intends to signal who they are. Saying something is a "sign of poverty" doesn't mean anyone is cultivating an image or playing status games. It's not a game or a message to be visibly poor.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#547

Post by fbdab103 »

BirdieNZ wrote: post #541
fbdab103 wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm much better off doing that right before a sale. I would love to see industry averages on if pre-sale renovations make any sense at all. Considering the outright financial expenses, possible financing, potentially weeks/months of organizing contractors, dealing with overages, delaying the house sale, yada yada. If the work takes more than a week (so not just appliances, painting, etc) is there generally a positiv…

> I would love to see industry averages on if pre-sale renovations make any sense at all. Considering the outright financial expenses, possible financing, potentially weeks/months of organizing contractors, dealing with overages, delaying the house sale, yada yada. They must surely make sense, given that there are people who "flip" houses (buy a house, do a quick paint/bathrooms/kitchen renovation on it and sell it f…

I was considering that, but flippers are likely better prepared to purchase a house, do the N activities which make time/financial sense, and get out of the market as quickly as possible. They likely possess the skills to do some of the work themselves, have existing relationships with plumbers/electricians to perform specialized work, know how to handle required permitting, have a realtor on the ready, and a dozen of other things which I am ignorant.

The average homeowner is unlikely to have any of those relationships or knowledge, so there are a lot more things that could go wrong that delay the project or cause costs to balloon. Maybe a lot of people mistakenly believe that renovating the kitchen for $20k will add $40k value to the house, but in practice, the project will cost $34k, take five weeks, and ultimately only raises the final sale price to $35k.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#548

Post by [deleted] »

sangnoir wrote: post #257
osigurdson wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Wow, look at me, I now have a cushy (soul crushing) job at the city just like my slightly wealthier neighbour. All life goals checked off now.

I knew you were someone who could afford to "ignore" social cues. I used to think the tech-type was not like that until I observed some common threads, at lest in the Bay Area (driving an EV or planning to buy one - likely a Tesla, Patagonia vests, loves to hike, has an Apple watch)

[deleted]

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#549

Post by lmm »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #391
SoftTalker wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, that's the point of the parent of this subthread. They (the hoodie-wearers) would probably insist that they don't judge based on dress or appearance, but they do, and maybe more harshly than the suit-wearers. It's just what people do. I grew up wearing suits to work, shaving every day, and wearing a short neat haircut. I don't as much anymore, but I don't wear hoodies with pizza sauce stains either, and I don'…

You'll meet suit-wearing people, business casual people, and pizza-stained-hoodie people. Some will be conventionally attractive, some not. Some old, some young, some male, some female, some of one race, some another. Some will be skilled, diligent, and productive, some will be well-spoken and good communicators, some will be honest, some will be punctual... some will be not. Some of those things are choices that mat…

You said:

> please don't think less of me as a human because of what I choose to wear.

But doesn't:

> dressing in a suit gets in the way of getting work done. It subtly conveys "I'm too important to get my hands dirty, I'll leave the grunt work to the grunts."

mean that you think less of others because of what they choose to wear?

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#550

Post by motohagiography »

the_only_law wrote: post #488
motohagiography wrote: post #245

Not going to university or dropping out of it is the most expensive countersignal of all, and it also knocks away the ladder for people who might try to follow you into your chosen endeavour. I've been articulating this dynamic for a long time and tell anyone who thinks I am an example that it's a terrible example to follow - mostly because the countersignals become the signal, as really, if you really want to prove…

> Not going to university or dropping out of it is the most expensive countersignal of all I think this was the worst mistake I’ve made to date.

Forgive your imagined mistakes. It was a handicap I chose and controlled, based on a very deep seated mistrust of authority, which led me to avoid taking on a small challenge that millions of other normal kids do all the time. Live and learn.

The 90's counter signal trope of success without school was as misleading as the trope you had to get a degree to amount to anything, which was contemptuous of the generations of working class families who created the culture that produced those institutions. None of it means anything so long as you own it, but it is a different life, literally, a different trajectory by degree.

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