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Airlines lobbying FAA to have only one pilot in the cockpit

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Re: Airlines lobbying FAA to have only one pilot in the cockpit

#191

Post by soheil »

phkahler wrote: post #164

This makes no sense to me. The cost of having a copilot is one shared by every carrier. Eliminating that does not give one a competitive advantage as all carriers will get a similar cost reduction. It smacks an elitist "fuck employees, we hate having them, it's our money" That's not even considering the safety implications.

Safety implications are total bs, the moment a plane that has one pilot goes down congress will pass a law than requires a minimum of 6 pilots for every plane. So that would be idiotic on the part of airlines to lobby for if they suspected significant additional risks. Also keep in mind buses have one driver and it's just as bad if a bus crashes, but I suppose you don't care since you don't take buses much, talk about "elitists".

No one is "fucking employees" when that leads to bottom line growth in a crippling and money losing industry with insane regulations and red tapes like required no smoking signs in brand new airplanes.

Re: Airlines lobbying FAA to have only one pilot in the cockpit

#192

Post by mrtksn »

hattar wrote: post #188
mrtksn wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe its not competitive advantage against other airlines but is definitely competitive advantage against other forms of transport. If they can reduce cost they can reduce price and this may result in growth of the market. It will also increase the supply of human resources which would make fast market expansion possible. I don't know about the security implications but I'm inclined to believe that lowering costs is…

What form of travel are airlines competing with in the US? Travel by train is basically so bad that it’s for entertainment purposes only and any distance over 300 miles is more expensive and time consuming by car. The fact that the airport/TSA experience can be so difficult and airlines are still fine is a testament to the lack of viable alternatives.

I don't know, are interstate highways empty? Price reduction can compete against the trips not taken at least.

Also, it might be about the availability of pilots. How is the demand for air travel doing? If it is very strong then 1 pilot per plane would mean twice the pilots in the market. Then it's up to hardware producers to supply the pilots with planes and increase market.

Re: Airlines lobbying FAA to have only one pilot in the cockpit

#193

Post by acdha »

gandalfgreybeer wrote: post #20
version_five wrote: post #8

I'm generally anti-union, but happy to see the union here pushing back against this. This is definitely not in passengers' interests, and normally passengers don't have an advocate with any power, so it's nice to see our interests are aligned with the pilots' union.

Idk if this is an American/West thing but here unions are the main reasons why workers are not exploited and have rights.

It’s an American thing: there’s been money pouring into promotion of libertarianism and anti-union ideas like “right to work” laws ever since the Great Depression-era reforms lead to better compensation and rights for workers. A lot of influential writers, preachers, etc. got substantial funding and promotion for generations so now you’ll find many people who are conversant with these ideas but never really understood their origin as a coordinated campaign rather than an organic movement.

Re: Airlines lobbying FAA to have only one pilot in the cockpit

#194

Post by [deleted] »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #9
version_five wrote: post #8

I'm generally anti-union, but happy to see the union here pushing back against this. This is definitely not in passengers' interests, and normally passengers don't have an advocate with any power, so it's nice to see our interests are aligned with the pilots' union.

>I'm generally anti-union, but happy to see the union here pushing back against this. Damn, it's almost like workers rights and safety are aligned in some way...

[deleted]

Re: Airlines lobbying FAA to have only one pilot in the cockpit

#195

Post by shantara »

There are so many reasons why this is a bad idea. With the possible human error and handling of emergency situations already discussed in other comments, there is another obvious objection: how are the new pilots supposed to gain enough flight experience before they are allowed to solo fly commercial airliners? Simulator only?

Re: Airlines lobbying FAA to have only one pilot in the cockpit

#196

Post by ddalex »

soheil wrote: post #191
phkahler wrote: post #164

This makes no sense to me. The cost of having a copilot is one shared by every carrier. Eliminating that does not give one a competitive advantage as all carriers will get a similar cost reduction. It smacks an elitist "fuck employees, we hate having them, it's our money" That's not even considering the safety implications.

Safety implications are total bs, the moment a plane that has one pilot goes down congress will pass a law than requires a minimum of 6 pilots for every plane. So that would be idiotic on the part of airlines to lobby for if they suspected significant additional risks. Also keep in mind buses have one driver and it's just as bad if a bus crashes, but I suppose you don't care since you don't take buses much, talk abou…

So you say that no way a company will prioritise short term profits at the expense of a small long term risk ?

I'd agree that risk is not affected only if the plane can take off, navigate, land and park on the runway entirely on its own (effectively replacing a pilot)

Re: Airlines lobbying FAA to have only one pilot in the cockpit

#197

Post by tinus_hn »

nottorp wrote: post #161
tinus_hn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone stop a bus? Does it stop automatically if the driver has a heart attack? Will all the passengers die? Can anyone land a plane? Does it land automatically if the pilot has a heart attack? Will all the passengers die? The outcomes are quite different.

Hmm a tangent thought. Does a bus with an automatic transmission and cruise control on stop on its own if the driver passes out?

Who knows? But will doing nothing result in a disaster 100% of the time? Will the passengers be able to resolve the situation?

Re: Airlines lobbying FAA to have only one pilot in the cockpit

#198

Post by null0ranje »

kwanbix wrote: post #182
phkahler wrote: post #164

This makes no sense to me. The cost of having a copilot is one shared by every carrier. Eliminating that does not give one a competitive advantage as all carriers will get a similar cost reduction. It smacks an elitist "fuck employees, we hate having them, it's our money" That's not even considering the safety implications.

And what happens if THE pilot has a heart attack or similar problem that prevents it from flying the plane?

It’s the insurance company’s problem. /s

Re: Airlines lobbying FAA to have only one pilot in the cockpit

#199

Post by cainxinth »

WalterBright wrote: post #31

All you gotta do is watch a few episodes of "Aviation Disasters" to conclude that the pilot needs a backup - the copilot. After all, when the pilot goes to the potty, who is flying the airplane? The computer? LOL. When something unanticipated goes wrong, the computers are COMPLETELY USELESS because it wasn't programmed to deal with unanticipated problems. Me, I'll pay a bit extra for my flight to have 2 pilots. Pilot…

I love that show. At some point in every episode the narrator says something to the effect of:

"Little did they know, that one small oversight would set off a cascade of failures that would seal their fate."

Re: Airlines lobbying FAA to have only one pilot in the cockpit

#200

Post by nottorp »

jen20 wrote: post #174
nottorp wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm a tangent thought. Does a bus with an automatic transmission and cruise control on stop on its own if the driver passes out?

That is an argument for two drivers in busses, not one pilot in planes.

Or a dead man’s switch like they have in trains? I didnt post it as an argument.
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