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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

651–660 of 915 posts

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like we have decent banking here…?

USA doesn't even have a standard way of normal humans transferring money electronically to each other, leading to a plethora of competing apps that try to solve this.

The US has a couple of ways that normal humans can transfer money electronically to each other. But they're old school (and require bank accounts) and that's why there are newer systems that people use instead.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a lot to put in a sack and bring to a store to pay for something.

$10,000 in US $20 bills weighs about 1 pound. In $100 bills, it fits nicely in your pocket or in a small purse. I assume 100 euro notes are about the same.

They also have 500 EUR bills there in Europe. 10000 EUR will fit in a postcard envelope.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the Netherlands no one uses cash any more In my one visit to the Netherlands I had to use cash because small places wouldn't take Visa/MC because it was too expensive for them. They had no problem accepting cash tho. Which Netherlands have you been to?

Visa/MC is not so widely accepted in smaller shops/stores. However, if you have a maestro debit card you basically have no need to carry cash. I live in Holland and never carry cash, even when going to food markets or when going out for far cycling trips to village areas. Only reason I carry cash (and I specifically have to go to the ATM for this) is when I go to my barber, of which it is obvious, they only accept ca…

Foreigners in the Netherlands must use cash at Albert Heijn, the major grocery store, as they do not accept credit and essentially only accept Dutch debit cards (ie, Maestro).

Ethnic restaurants in Amsterdam, say around De Pijp, often force payment in cash.

Are you sure you really want to pay for items at a 'coffee shop' in Amsterdam by card?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#654
Let me give another perspective. The freedom to operate in cash is the freedom to be anonymous and is much like to freedom of speech or freedom from surveillance. I just want to have a right to use my money without my bank or my government knowing all the details. We became too used to license plate and, recently, face tracking by everpresent CCTV, but this is not normal.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#655

There already exists laws where you have to register with tax authorities to receive payments in cash over 10,000 euros. It would be quite easy for the government to look at this list and decide that there's no reason they can't be done by BACS and then introduce this law. There's a lot of replies that are quite shocked, but in the EU and the UK it is very unusual to use cash for high value payments. For example, you…

In the US, you have to fill out a form that gets sent to the FBI and IRS if you use over $10,000 cash in one transaction. It's still legal. I think this is a much better solution than banning cash transfers over $10,000.

Form 8300 must be filed and is sent to various agencies for multiple cash payments over $10k as well, which includes, for example, paying for a car or paying for rent.

These laws are old and stem from a time when $10k was equal to around $70k now (edit: someone else points out "Bank Secrecy Act of 1970 sets reporting at $10K which would be ~$80K today"). They've simply never been updated.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need CBDC, just the existing system today. Here in the UK something like 3% of money is available as paper cash. The rest is just a row in a database. Assets are zero sum - if i sell you my car, i no longer have that asset. Money is not zero sum. It is created and destroyed as loans are made and repaid. Which kinda frazzles people’s minds when they hear it. I know it certainly did mine when i first learned.…

> Money is not zero sum. It is created and destroyed as loans are made and repaid. For some definitions of money. Definitely not true of M0.

Are you sure? M0 includes reserves - as in money deposited at the central bank by commercial banks. Reserves are increased by quantitative easing, the source of the additional reserves is nothing other than a decision.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#657
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horrible take. 10k is a pittance. Small business owners, farmers, people buying and selling vehicles, etc. It’s not a large amount of money. If you go down to the apple store and buy a couple well specced computers the bill is going to be over 10k.

I very much doubt there are money people that walk into an apple store with 10k in their back pocket to pay for some computers. Same with farmers. How many farmers living in this modern age are walking around with 10k in their back pockets? In the vast majority of cases, I would argue that people just use their bank account for such large payments these days.

A new Macbook Pros can easily be over $6k (16", upgraded ram, upgraded hard drive, etc). $10k is not that much money. People do pay for these laptops in cash.

A phone has cost over $1k for years. Think of the present rate of inflation. $10k is nothing, particularly a decade from now. Then think of two decades from now and this silly law still on the books.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#658
post #256

This is obviously the first part of a major push to force us to use Central Bank Digital Currencies. Now that they are banning cash, we will be controlled like never before. This is the beginning of the end of freedom.

Let's be honest for a second. There are very few instances where a person would ever 'need' to pay for something over €10k in physical cash?

There are also very few instances where a person would 'need' to freely express their beliefs or opinions, so what?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#659
post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horrible take. 10k is a pittance. Small business owners, farmers, people buying and selling vehicles, etc. It’s not a large amount of money. If you go down to the apple store and buy a couple well specced computers the bill is going to be over 10k.

Very few (if any) Apple stores will accept that amount in cash. A lot of stores and businesses (also the likes of Carrefour and Albert Heijn) have been phasing out setups needed for cash payments. Even if you find a way to pay cash, it will be on a separate (long and slow) queue or they will need to exceptionally call their supervisor to handle the payment.

They do accept that amount of cash. They do a dance where they take your cash, convert it to Apple gift cards at about $1k (or $2k?) each, then they apply those gift cards towards your purchase. Afterwards, they throw away the gift cards.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We dont use cash very often, but we have our own separate payment networks called Maestro and V-Pay. So tourists nearly always have to resort to cash transactions.

> our own separate payment networks called Maestro You mean Mastercard's brand?

Yes, technically. But you won't be able to use an American Mastercard. Maestro is a debit card, generally it will look like this: https://www.abnamro.com/en/news/pin-needed-less-often-when-m.... I've never seen it in the US.
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