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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#591

Post by bool3max »

expazl wrote: post #394
AHappyCamper wrote: post #225

This is obviously the first part of a major push to force us to use Central Bank Digital Currencies. Now that they are banning cash, we will be controlled like never before. This is the beginning of the end of freedom.

Where I live people in my generation have been primarily cashless at least the last quarter of a century, and yet we still significantly outrank the US in the freedom indexes, which isn't exactly a high bar these days, but still serves to underline that the typical American centrist argument that using primarily paper cash somehow improves freedom is wrong.

"freedom indexes" - get a hold of yourself

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#592

Post by from »

Teandw wrote: post #257
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

In what circumstances have you or someone you known ever needed to pay for something over €10k in cash?

Why is your default to disallow it? I understand there is the interest of society and all in preventing crime but a reporting requirement like in the US would do the exact same thing and produce useful intelligence instead of just making all large cash transactions go underground.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#593

Post by csomar »

ceejayoz wrote: post #556
p1esk wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you’re a dissident and you’re running from your government. You’re are more likely to succeed if you have cash.

If I'm a dissident running from the government I probably don't want the attention generated by bringing 10k Euros in cash into a business to buy something.

We don't know what circumstances this "dissident running from the government" is facing.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#594

Post by from »

asah wrote: post #445
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

Is this indexed to inflation? If not, then it's even worse.

These laws never are on purpose. The $10000 reporting threshold in America was set in 1970 and would be almost $80000 today.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#595

Post by csomar »

Teandw wrote: post #257
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

In what circumstances have you or someone you known ever needed to pay for something over €10k in cash?

Why is this even a question? Are we really discussing whether people are allowed to trade tokens with physical items? Did the bar really go that low.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#596

Post by throwaway09223 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #568
pclmulqdq wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$10,000 in US $20 bills weighs about 1 pound. In $100 bills, it fits nicely in your pocket or in a small purse. I assume 100 euro notes are about the same.

It's a lot of money to put in your pocket. I didn't say anything about weight .

It's not, though. I remember carrying that much cash when I saved up for a summer to buy some computer components. They didn't take checks, and at the time I was like 19 and my debit card didn't have a high enough limit to buy the items I wanted (a couple of high end workstations, nothing super fancy- computers used to be expensive!)

It's actually pretty common to need to buy things over $10k. It's pretty common for vendors to not take checks. It's pretty common to not have high enough credit limits to cover these types of purchases.

There still isn't any way to do this other than cash.

It's unusual to carry around this much cash every day, but it's totally normal to carry this much cash sometimes for specific large purchases.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#597

Post by c4ptnjack »

dahfizz wrote: post #380
Teandw wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much doubt there are money people that walk into an apple store with 10k in their back pocket to pay for some computers. Same with farmers. How many farmers living in this modern age are walking around with 10k in their back pockets? In the vast majority of cases, I would argue that people just use their bank account for such large payments these days.

> I would argue that people just use their bank account for such large payments these days. Yup, and now they are _forced_ to. Its a single point of failure. One which the government conveniently has control over. I'm surprised the HN crowd isn't grasping this more clearly. Backups are important.

For most businesses, cash is a far more likely point of failure.

Taking in large amounts of cash is ripe for robbery. It's also why a lot of places don't accept $100's after a certain time and etc because it gets really risky for the employees.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#598

Post by Zircom »

Teandw wrote: post #523
olivermarks wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the US and UK/Europe. The vast majority of older people at a swap meet or similar are not going to trust smartphone app transactions. Cash is king.

They don't trust a smartphone app provided by their banking provider but they trust a random bloke they've never met with 10k in their back pocket. Right. Makes sense.

Scenario one - Person A bank transfers Person B $10,000 for their classic car at the car show. Person A leaves, and then several days later the money is clawed back from Person B's account as it turns out it was sent from a stolen/compromised account. They now have no money and no car.

Scenario two - Person A gives Person B $10,000 in cash for their classic car at the car show. Person A leaves, and Person B could give a shit about anything to do with Person A as soon as they are out of sight.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#599

Post by sanid »

Teandw wrote: post #309
olivermarks wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying older cars and car parts and similar specialized areas

I would make the bold assumption that people paying over €10,000 for a used car in cash is a very rare situation.

It's not rare, happens every day. How else are you going to buy it from another private person safely? You want to have an instant transaction. You give somebody money and get a car, thats the safest transaction for both sides. Are you going to wire somebody 10k+ for a car you can't have instantly? (note real time bank transactions are only now becoming a real widespread thing around here in Germany)

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#600

Post by franey »

xyzzyz wrote: post #580
tastysandwich wrote: post #506

A similar thing was attempted in Australia [1]. I just ask people to consider that even though we all have bank accounts and we take that for granted, there _are_ actually people who don't, and they're not operating a criminal enterprise. My grandparents came as refugees. My grandfather has never had a bank account. He bought a car with $50 bills once. It was so funny, they were all stuck together and the clerk had t…

> In his home country, you couldn't trust the banks, so people hid their money. Of course that kind of thinking is silly in Australia, but good luck explaining that to someone with war-trauma. Not too long ago we saw the Canadian government freeze bank accounts of people for protesting the Covid measures. Don’t think that it cannot happen in your country.

For people not familiar with Canadian politics, this summary missed some important nuance. Bank accounts were frozen for some people who donated money to support an illegal occupation of part of Canada's capital city, Ottawa. The occupation was a mix of people protesting COVID measures and others demanding that Justin Trudeau resign.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergency-bank-measures-fin...

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