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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#481

Post by anigbrowl »

omginternets wrote: post #301
Spivak wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 99% of the time people do that is because they’re moving banks and they leave with a cashiers check instead of cash.

So, to be clear, you can’t actually liquidate your account.

No, that doesn't follow. You can definitely remove large amounts of cash, you just have to think ahead a little. Also, you have overlooked the fact that for many people a cashier's check is more convenient than a large wad of cash, especially if their sole object is to deposit it at a competing institution.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#482

Post by flumpcakes »

Teandw wrote: post #309
olivermarks wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying older cars and car parts and similar specialized areas

I would make the bold assumption that people paying over €10,000 for a used car in cash is a very rare situation.

I don't think I have ever paid for anything over a few hundred in cash. Criminalising the use of cash seems a bit authoritarian, but I don't think there is any legitimate reason to pay for anything in cash with that amount that couldn't be done by a BACS transfer.

In the UK you have to register with HMRC under money laundering supervision regulations if you are a business or trader that takes in cash payments over 10,000 euro.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#483

Post by vl »

woodruffw wrote: post #381
wara23arish wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work for a bank in the US as a teller before 2019. You absolutely can walk in and ask for 12K in cash. That amount is normal. If you’re asking for 30-50K then coordination is needed, and its not because money is not available, simply because youd need to open the vault and that takes time.

I think there's a large degree of variance here: I've been in places that would have struggled to hand over $1000 in cash, since they might have had only 2-3 times that total on hand for the entire week. That was in a small town, but that's my point: anecdotes about being unable to withdraw money are more about logistics than a banking collapse being hidden from the public.

This was in a branch that before pandemic would fork out 10k easily. I’m not the only one who experienced this - my friends experienced this across different banks in different states.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#484

Post by b112 »

Teandw wrote: post #386
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

"Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'." This likely affects a number of people that is so small, that it's irrelevant. Not sure it makes sense to say that such a law that effects a tiny number of individuals is penalizing everyone.

This likely affects a number of people that is so small, that it's irrelevant

No. Just no.

Rights are not a for-profit balance sheet, such as when Google support provides crappy service, or ghosts you, in the name of profit.

Rights are rights. Entrenched, untouchable, everlasting. And each loss affects us all, for the next right taken, is from you.

Telling people they must use private enterprise, a third party and pay a fee, to conduct commerce between them, is a fascist act.

And guess what. 30 years from now, when that 10k is like 500, what then?

Because limits like these are never raised.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#485

Post by flumpcakes »

ur-whale wrote: post #454
Teandw wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what circumstances have you or someone you known ever needed to pay for something over €10k in cash?

> In what circumstances have you or someone you known ever needed to pay for something over €10k in cash? Anyone involved in the construction business. But yeah, if you're a wage slave in the tertiary sector, you're very unlikely to realize how and why cash is necessary or even a matter of survival for a large class of workers out there.

Why not a BACS or any other type of bank transfer for that industry/sector? It sounds like a good way to do tax evasion if you just take cash in hand payments.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#486

Post by moritonal »

matkoniecz wrote: post #441
pelorat wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. It doesn't affect anyone. No one in Europe uses cash for anything more expensive than maybe 200 euros. Of course in some countries like Sweden and the Netherlands no one uses cash any more at all, and almost all ATM machines have been removed. I believe cash-only places are now outlawed. The reason for this…

> No one in Europe uses cash for anything more expensive than maybe 200 euros. That is absurd. People regularly pay for things like new computer with cash. And family member was buying a flat recently - seller wanted cash, so transaction took place in a bank. Cash was withdrawn (around 90 000 euro?), exchanged when sale was notarized and deposited. As I understand, this would not be legal anymore?

Hol up, the buyer wanted cash for buying a flat? And no-one saw anything fishy in that?

Really sounds like your family member accidentally helped launder money.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#487

Post by b112 »

matt123456789 wrote: post #479
senko wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its a single point of failure You can have more than one bank account.

The point is that you cannot do any meaningful amount of business if “the system” prevents you from banking, or malfunctions in some way that locks you out. Or more insidiously, if someone in power prevents you from banking because they do not like what you have to say. There is no longer a gray market relief valve. All unbanked business activity is illegal.

The recent trucker protest in Canada, had just this happen.

People locked out of their accounts. For protesting!

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#488

Post by flumpcakes »

There already exists laws where you have to register with tax authorities to receive payments in cash over 10,000 euros.

It would be quite easy for the government to look at this list and decide that there's no reason they can't be done by BACS and then introduce this law.

There's a lot of replies that are quite shocked, but in the EU and the UK it is very unusual to use cash for high value payments. For example, you would not be able to buy property in the UK with cash. Even if you had the cash and put it into a bank account for the sole purpose to send to your solicitors, this would get flagged and you would not be able to proceed with the purchase.

There's a lot of money laundering, and laws like this don't really affect the average person, they would disproportionately affect people trying to commit fraud though.

The majority of people won't even have 10,000 euro in savings, let alone want to make purchases above this amount in cash.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#489

Post by p1esk »

Teandw wrote: post #386
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

"Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'." This likely affects a number of people that is so small, that it's irrelevant. Not sure it makes sense to say that such a law that effects a tiny number of individuals is penalizing everyone.

Even if no one is affected today it does not mean many won’t be affected tomorrow. What if your government decides to take all your money from you for no good reason?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#490

Post by flandish »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #464
flandish wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ Legal tender is anything recognized by law as a means to settle a public or private debt or meet a financial obligation, including tax payments, contracts, and legal fines or damages. The national currency is legal tender in practically every country. ” https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/legal-tender.asp I’m sorry my use of the word “legal” in the context of “legally acceptable tender” triggered this response. Yo…

> The use of cash, if agreed upon by parties involved, is legal because it’s a government “backed”/“accepted” item of currency. Tendering cash in this transaction is legal. This is false. You immediately provide an example that shows it's false: > (You’re not trading a car for $value in meth or guns..) The fact that cash may be provided to settle a debt, even when the creditor doesn't want it, does not mean that it's…

I am speaking *nothing* about compelling the use of cash between two parties.

My only and consistent point that is that it is silly for a nation to put a ceiling amount on its currency (cash) trading hands in physical meatspace form.

For the amount will stay while inflation will not and the cohort of people “bumping” into this limit will increase over time.

It’s not about compelling cash. Move away from that.

It’s about a nation limiting the amount that can be used in the “name” of “fighting terrorism.”

Nonsense.

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