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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#261

Post by Strom »

sofixa wrote: post #246
Strom wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean a bank will demand to know information about the customers of a business that has an account with them? I personally already run a business and my bank has never wanted any info from me about my business's customers. Sure they know me well, but not my customers. Are you saying this is an exception?

The bank reports your bank transactions to the tax authority, who compare them with your tax returns. If there are significant discrepancies you'll probably get asked questions about your customers.

Well in Estonia (an EU state) this certainly doesn't happen with any regularity. The tax authority has the possibility to ask for bank statements, but they are required by law to inform the account holder of this check up. It only happens for cases where you're already under a tax authority investigation.

I know though that this is the case in more government-happy states like Denmark, where the banks send this data more liberally.

Anyway even if all the data would go automatically to the tax authority, that doesn't reveal anything. The company would be paying tax properly on all of this, that's the whole idea of laundering. To get the money into the legal system.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#262

Post by ericmay »

Teandw wrote: post #256
AHappyCamper wrote: post #225

This is obviously the first part of a major push to force us to use Central Bank Digital Currencies. Now that they are banning cash, we will be controlled like never before. This is the beginning of the end of freedom.

Let's be honest for a second. There are very few instances where a person would ever 'need' to pay for something over €10k in physical cash?

I don’t think “need” is a good reason here or for anywhere else. You don’t need to pay for things in cash, you don’t need to make more money, you don’t need to play soccer.

Etc.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#263

Post by michaelmrose »

sgjohnson wrote: post #200
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My country loses about €32 billions in yearly income due to tax evasion. That's the amount of money that could change many lives if used right. Instead we're cutting benefits to the poor bto reduce our deficit. Tax evasion is a top priority.

Quoted post unavailable.

Most states are complex structures largely manipulated by a tiny number of people for the benefit of themselves and the top echelon so as to capture the vast majority of the wealth created by everyone for a minority of nonproductives whos contribution is owning things as opposed to doing useful work. Erasing every obligation they presently possess to the functional state that enabled the nonproductive to live in wealth and luxury seems like an incredibly bad idea for them and us.

Everyone deserves health care, fire suppression, police to respond to criminal behavior, courts, a national defense and a defense of democracy against terrorists and would be fascists and others who would overthrow it.

Some things like health care can be provided albeit exceptionally poorly with a ridiculously bad ROI by a mixed private / public system. Others are ridiculous to imagine. For example if you privatize the military you create a single concentration of power that could trivially be bought out by anyone wanting to shitcan democracy tomorrow.

If it were possible to effectively run a large society like that one would suppose that in thousands of years one would have been so constituted.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#264

Post by pelorat »

olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

> Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'.

It doesn't affect anyone. No one in Europe uses cash for anything more expensive than maybe 200 euros. Of course in some countries like Sweden and the Netherlands no one uses cash any more at all, and almost all ATM machines have been removed. I believe cash-only places are now outlawed. The reason for this is because of the small stores run by immigrants that does you-never-know-what with the money you give them.

> People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment

Safe in this case means eliminating those shady cash-only stores. Here in Europe the cash-only stores (nowadays outlawed) were mostly run by immigrants. We're talking pizzerias, barber shops, fast food trucks, corner cafes. Places where a lot of cash is laundered.

God riddance to those places.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#265

Post by Spivak »

woodruffw wrote: post #177
vl wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Underreported info is that during many months of pandemic you couldn’t withdraw any significant amounts of cash. I decided to withdraw $10k just in case and they told me maximum they can do is $1k per day and this story repeated for many months.

I saw plenty of reporting on this, and nearly all of it was editorialized: it was being treated as evidence that customer savings weren't available, when the actual reason is that bank branches simply don't keep massive vaults of money on hand. If you have a bank account, you can always withdraw your savings (at least up to the amount insured, in the event of a bank collapse). But there has never been a guarantee tha…

And 99% of the time people do that is because they’re moving banks and they leave with a cashiers check instead of cash.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#266

Post by jesusofnazarath »

Teandw wrote: post #257
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

In what circumstances have you or someone you known ever needed to pay for something over €10k in cash?

A car?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#267

Post by olivermarks »

Teandw wrote: post #257
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

In what circumstances have you or someone you known ever needed to pay for something over €10k in cash?

Buying older cars and car parts and similar specialized areas

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#268

Post by namdnay »

sgjohnson wrote: post #207
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Name one practical reason to pay amounts higher than 1.000€ in cash." it's 10.000 euros, you're off by an order of magnitude. Can you name one practical reason to pay more than 10k cash?

> Can you name one practical reason to pay more than 10k cash? Have you ever bought a used car? Or played relatively high limit at a casino? It’s perfectly normal to take 6 figures cash to a casino if you’re playing high stakes poker, for example. And there are plenty of other reasons.

> Have you ever bought a used car?

A cashiers check costs what? 10, 20 euros?

And we’re talking about how it can impact real people here, not the 0.1% who gamble 10 years’ minimum wage at the casino in one evening

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#269

Post by itronitron »

stuckinhell wrote: post #146

I've noticed some similar in America recently. I've got friends who move 5-6 figure sums for various personal businesses, and their banks have been extra critical of their transactions. One bank got so annoying, that my friend tried to close the account, and couldn't! Lately hearing more and more stories about people getting de-banked, as been making me feel a little nervous. In the cases of the banks and my business…

"In the fall of 2019 there was no war in Ukraine, there was no pandemic. But for still undisclosed reasons, the Fed decided to funnel trillions of dollars in cumulative repo loans to the trading units of U.S. megabanks and their foreign counterparties. The Fed’s repo loans stretched from September 17, 2019 through July 2, 2020."

>> https://wallstreetonparade.com/2022/04/global-megabanks-are-...

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#270

Post by sofixa »

sgjohnson wrote: post #233
dbspin wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU citizen here. You are not representative. The EU is an incredible boon to civil rights, national wealth and our consumer protections are enviable.

> The EU is an incredible boon to civil rights We don’t even have a true right to free speech. That puts us behind the U.S., because I struggle to think of a “civil right” that we have but Americans don’t. And before you pull “healthcare”, first of all, it’s got nothing to do with the EU, and secondly, in most EU countries the state-funded healthcare is so abysmal that everyone who can afford it still takes out priva…

> We don’t even have a true right to free speech. That puts us behind the U.S., because I struggle to think of a “civil right” that we have but Americans don’t.

> And before you pull “healthcare”, first of all, it’s got nothing to do with the EU, and secondly, in most EU countries the state-funded healthcare is so abysmal that everyone who can afford it still takes out private insurance.

So free speech is an EU matter but healthcare is a local one? No, both are decided locally with limited EU oversight - e.g. the EU is trying to punish Poland and Hungary's free speech limitations.

> We don’t even have a true right to free speech

Specifically this is a no true Scotsman fallacy. Legislation prohibiting antisemitic speech doesn't make free speech not "truly free", it just makes it not absolute, which is IMO necessary for a civilised developed society, as long as there are controls to ensure it's not abused.

> Like GDPR, which is a legislation so fantastic that for most businesses it’s physically impossible to truly comply with it?

Why do you think that? The majority of business comply with it.

In terms of civil rights we have more than Americans - abortions (in most places, not an EU but local thing), the right not to get murdered by poor policing or overarmed population, consumer protections such as mandatory minimum warranties and return periods. Also there are much better employee and tenant protections.

Also a much better political and judicial system - first past the post? Politically appointed judges?

All in all, the EU is a marvelous thing that has enabled peace and prosperity across a continent, and has done far more good than bad - universal phone chargers, consumer protections at every level (flight delays, warranties, data), the new forced interoperability between gatekeepers, the euro and SEPA, the subsidies that have enabled so much development. Anyone rooting against it probably doesn't understand it all that well, or is an isolationist.

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