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An experimental program in Austria that creates work for the unemployed

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Re: An experimental program in Austria that creates work for the unemployed

#31

Post by burritas »

mgrthrow wrote: post #7
cocacola1 wrote: post #3

These two paragraphs in particular stuck out to me: > Critics of labor-market programs such as the Job Guarantee argue that they enable precisely this sort of choice—they make it easier to decline work that one doesn’t like. One program participant in his thirties told me that, while on unemployment benefits, he’d been offered a job cleaning toilets at a gas station; he’d decided that he didn’t want “that sort of job…

This is the classic answer to the classic question about anarchy: "who will do the unpleasant, demeaning work?" "We only think it's unpleasant because we make it unpleasant. We can have clean, well lit factories. We just have to prioritize making that work more pleasant."

How do we make cleaning septic tanks more enjoyable?

Re: An experimental program in Austria that creates work for the unemployed

#32

Post by guerrilla »

cocacola1 wrote: post #3

These two paragraphs in particular stuck out to me: > Critics of labor-market programs such as the Job Guarantee argue that they enable precisely this sort of choice—they make it easier to decline work that one doesn’t like. One program participant in his thirties told me that, while on unemployment benefits, he’d been offered a job cleaning toilets at a gas station; he’d decided that he didn’t want “that sort of job…

> who would do the grungy, difficult work? Austrian employers, like those in America, are currently having difficulty hiring people to take hard, poorly paid jobs

> “If they’re shit jobs, try to pay them as well as possible. Try to change the working conditions as much as possible until you reach the point that somebody wants to do them, or automate them if you can. And then, if nobody wants to do them, maybe we shouldn’t do them.”

Seriously, if you can't find people to do those jobs then you're simply not paying them enough. This whole idea of intentionally disadvantaging people in order to force them to do what you want them to do is some comic book super villain thinking.

Re: An experimental program in Austria that creates work for the unemployed

#33

Post by unity1001 »

cocacola1 wrote: post #3

These two paragraphs in particular stuck out to me: > Critics of labor-market programs such as the Job Guarantee argue that they enable precisely this sort of choice—they make it easier to decline work that one doesn’t like. One program participant in his thirties told me that, while on unemployment benefits, he’d been offered a job cleaning toilets at a gas station; he’d decided that he didn’t want “that sort of job…

> who would do the grungy, difficult work

Robots.

Re: An experimental program in Austria that creates work for the unemployed

#34

Post by guerrilla »

burritas wrote: post #31
mgrthrow wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the classic answer to the classic question about anarchy: "who will do the unpleasant, demeaning work?" "We only think it's unpleasant because we make it unpleasant. We can have clean, well lit factories. We just have to prioritize making that work more pleasant."

How do we make cleaning septic tanks more enjoyable?

By paying a lot more.

Re: An experimental program in Austria that creates work for the unemployed

#35

Post by Barrin92 »

I think these programs are very positive. One thing that worries me today is the reductive way we talk about work often. On the one hand there's the "just give them cash, let the market figure it out" aspect that just reduces work to a commodity, on the other there's the 'all work is terrible' mentality. Oddly enough both have a sort of similar disregard for work in a way.

There's really a lack of discussion about the meaning-giving and social aspect of work and how to actively design work in communities. I wonder whether the parallel decline of both traditional labor and religious groups had a strong impact on the perception of work because those were the two main camps resisting that reductive mentality.

Re: An experimental program in Austria that creates work for the unemployed

#36

Post by Retric »

burritas wrote: post #31
mgrthrow wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the classic answer to the classic question about anarchy: "who will do the unpleasant, demeaning work?" "We only think it's unpleasant because we make it unpleasant. We can have clean, well lit factories. We just have to prioritize making that work more pleasant."

How do we make cleaning septic tanks more enjoyable?

Robots and or increased pay.

Re: An experimental program in Austria that creates work for the unemployed

#37

Post by xboxnolifes »

kaesar14 wrote: post #21
maerF0x0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also perhaps the least dignified work should be the highest paid? Unfortunately America has a sort of wealth cult going on that we dignify (and deify) those who are already wealthy.

The unfortunate reality is because these jobs are plentiful and easy to do (NOT saying they aren’t demanding, just that they don’t require advanced training) it incentivizes a race to the bottom in terms of wages - but we should do better as a society in guaranteeing high working standards and wages through regulation instead.

Plentiful and easy to do means nothing in the face of sufficiently low supply of workers. If there isn't a low supply of workers, then why is there a quote given about people turning down work?

Re: An experimental program in Austria that creates work for the unemployed

#38

Post by loa_in_ »

burritas wrote: post #31
mgrthrow wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the classic answer to the classic question about anarchy: "who will do the unpleasant, demeaning work?" "We only think it's unpleasant because we make it unpleasant. We can have clean, well lit factories. We just have to prioritize making that work more pleasant."

How do we make cleaning septic tanks more enjoyable?

By paying enough

Re: An experimental program in Austria that creates work for the unemployed

#40

Post by guerrilla »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #11

One idea I've toyed with is that unemployment is actually a societal refusal to help eachother. Yes we all need sustenance, but consider something like this If I'm laid off I can choose to still program. If I don't my time might simply be wasted (eg on videogames, netflix, or even job applications). But I can also choose to continue to program. Maybe by helping local businesses, contributing to FOSS etc. While I unde…

People would do that if they could afford to... They need to be able to survive though. So it's rather our refusal to help them than their "refusal" to do anything...
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