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Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

paulgraham.com

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Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#71

Post by ryanklee »

fourfoursix wrote: post #55
ryanklee wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy moly. People cannot escape cognitive biases even by knowing about cognitive biases. This includes you. It seems that you think you have somehow transcended this condition. This is just another bias. And this particular one is maybe the most insidious of all because it convinces you you're better than most on a fundamental level and protects you from introspection and criticism. Seek humility.

How so. I simply said, "consider the possibility." Because scientifically. These are possibilities. Realistic ones in fact. I directly picked them for their controversy. I am aware of the direction they run counter to the norms. Are you aware of your biases? Are you aware how inline with cultural norms and biases that your opinions are? At times, many of these things weren't controversial. How do you know that the cu…

The fact that your comment is flagged and dead should give you pause. The fact that it doesn't give you pause should give you pause. The fact that you think I am objecting to your specific assertions rather than the mode of assertions should give you pause. Yet, it seems that self-regards of epistemic superiority is the only unstable fuel you need to travel down a lonely road. Good luck.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#72

Post by philwelch »

narag wrote: post #34
mgrthrow wrote: post #30

Doesn't land for me. I'm queer, my identity isn't huge, but it does include queer. That alone is enough to make some folks want to do violence to me (I have first hand experience with this). Telling me to "stop being x" is a bad vibe when x is something intrinsic about me AND the anti x folks hate me just for existing. I just want to live my life.

I take he's talking about ideas. Being queer, as I understand it, is not an idea but a fact, like being six feet tall or having blue eyes.

"Queer" is a vague identity with political connotations, by which I mean, the gay people who call themselves "queer" tend to be a lot more woke-leftist than the gay people who don't call themselves "queer". It's absolutely an idea and a constructed identity. The facts of the matter are things like sexual preferences and behaviors, but you don't inherently need to construct an identity around them. On the other hand, sometimes you need to be aware that even if you don't identify yourself, you will be identified by others, which you're going to have to deal with.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#73

Post by ethanbond »

fourfoursix wrote: post #68
ethanbond wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, believing things other people don’t believe is actually not evidence of objectivity.

[flagged]

Your ultimate objective should be thriving, ideally for you and as many people and creatures as you can afford to account for. Truth is valuable because since the enlightenment period it has seemed to be extremely valuable in securing thriving.

If you instead are picking Truth and Lack Of Bias over, for example, a rich social life, I’d suggest you are putting the cart before the horse.

I hope you find your place with the right mix of imperfect belongingness and imperfect veracity! Both are important :)

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#74

Post by fourfoursix »

ryanklee wrote: post #71
fourfoursix wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so. I simply said, "consider the possibility." Because scientifically. These are possibilities. Realistic ones in fact. I directly picked them for their controversy. I am aware of the direction they run counter to the norms. Are you aware of your biases? Are you aware how inline with cultural norms and biases that your opinions are? At times, many of these things weren't controversial. How do you know that the cu…

The fact that your comment is flagged and dead should give you pause. The fact that it doesn't give you pause should give you pause. The fact that you think I am objecting to your specific assertions rather than the mode of assertions should give you pause. Yet, it seems that self-regards of epistemic superiority is the only unstable fuel you need to travel down a lonely road. Good luck.

>The fact that your comment is flagged and dead should give you pause. The fact that it doesn't give you pause should give you pause.

There is no pause. I KNOW the COST of my beliefs. It is a high cost and your reaction and the flag is a small PART of that cost.

I live a life of lies. Externally I believe none of these things and I pretend to be normal just like you. But internally I see darkness everywhere.

Keep in mind, I don't care if my beliefs are implemented to make a better world. I could care less. In fact most of the beliefs I hold, I feel if the world knew the truth it would be worse off for everybody. I'm not really an opponent against any group here.

>"Yet, it seems that self-regards of epistemic superiority is the only unstable fuel you need to travel down a lonely road."

We both know that epistemic superiority is not worth it for any human. You underestimate the sacrifices involved with believing in these things. Nobody makes that choice. I get what your saying but you are disregarding the cost way too much here. A sense of superiority is not reward enough for the price one must pay to believe in these things.

I am what I am because I cannot un-believe what I think is true. I have no choice. Can you not believe 1 + 1 = 2? To me the conclusions are inescapable. But of course it could be that I am biased. Biased people do not know they are biased. Whether or not I am biased, I can assure you that I am not where I am by choice. I am where I am because I have no choice.

>The fact that you think I am objecting to your specific assertions rather than the mode of assertions should give you pause.

This DOES give me pause. Please describe to me in detail what you mean by "Mode."

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#75

Post by RajT88 »

kossTKR wrote: post #37
RajT88 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In tech, people ascribe you an identity as much as you claim one yourself. When I am not around, I have been described to people as "A DevOps guy" or "A Network Guy". People then treat me accordingly. But, being human (or an approximation thereof), I am not just one thing.

I often skip the fact that i work in tech in certain circles in the beginning. Instead i'm just a business consultant, or working with project management. Probably a bit cowardlike but people really love to put other people in boxes and for a lot of people working in tech means "oh so you're one of those super nerdy people that is naively optimistic about technology, is socially stunted, loves infantile pop culture a…

> "oh so you're one of those super nerdy people that is naively optimistic about technology, is socially stunted, loves infantile pop culture and has zero sense of aesthetics"

Hello!

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#76

Post by mgrthrow »

gardenhedge wrote: post #39
mgrthrow wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is labeled by default. Unless you weren't assigned a gender at birth, don't have a skin color, don't have sexual preferences, didn't have an economic situation you grew up in, didn't have a family with either single parents or multiple payments, etc etc

Labels can be both self-imposed and given. A self-imposed label is one that a person chooses to use to describe themselves or their experiences. For example, someone might choose to use the label "vegan" to describe their dietary habits because they feel that it accurately reflects their values and beliefs. On the other hand, a given label is one that is applied to a person or group by someone else. For example, a te…

I use the label queer as a self selected one. (Not self imposed, it's not an impression.)

Queer is not the same as LGBTQ+ (queer is more overly political). My identity is both given and self selected.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#77

Post by cjfd »

Maybe better advice is to not take on as identities things that you just took over from other people without questioning. Also know what the other side is thinking before deciding what belongs in your identity and what not. There are things that you should believe because you are you. There are also things that should be firmly rejected. It actually takes a fair bit of living before one knows things definitively. But there is also the danger of being too open minded. One can be so open minded that ones brain falls out...

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#78

Post by mgrthrow »

philwelch wrote: post #72
narag wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take he's talking about ideas. Being queer, as I understand it, is not an idea but a fact, like being six feet tall or having blue eyes.

"Queer" is a vague identity with political connotations, by which I mean, the gay people who call themselves "queer" tend to be a lot more woke-leftist than the gay people who don't call themselves "queer". It's absolutely an idea and a constructed identity. The facts of the matter are things like sexual preferences and behaviors, but you don't inherently need to construct an identity around them. On the other hand,…

I think you've both got the right answer and explained it with a very negative framing.

Gender and Sexual Minority, LGBTQ+, and queer all describe a largely similar set of folks.

Queer arose not from "woke-leftist" spaces, but grew out of 70s and 80s radical gay and trans spaces - groups like the Gay Liberation Front - who were willing to fight back (violently if necessary) against violence and discrimination.

Queer is absolutely a political identity, a framing of ones gender or sexual identity. They intersect with one another. It's not unlike "I eat only plants" vs "I'm vegan", they mean roughly the same thing until you hit contexts where they don't.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#79

Post by mgrthrow »

hypoqtech wrote: post #48
narag wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take he's talking about ideas. Being queer, as I understand it, is not an idea but a fact, like being six feet tall or having blue eyes.

I'm not sure it is a fact, I mean, these days there are heterosexual people who call themselves queer.

Well, queer encompasses more than just gay and lesbian people.

Non-binary people can be queer, heterosexual trans people can be queer, asexual people can be queer. Same with polyamorous people.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small (2009)

#80

Post by mgrthrow »

mdp2021 wrote: post #49
hoosieree wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author may be suffering from a form of blub paradox when it comes to how he identifies, which I would assume include white, male, rich, smart, founder, and writer. It's easy for him to discard "lesser" identities like "javascript programmer" because that doesn't cost him anything.

> which I would assume include Wrong assumption. We do not necessarily "identify". All those terms in that list can be fully avoided as identifications. No, it is not normal to be "identified" with any of that.

Would the author say, "I am a ..." and end with any of the above? If so, they identify as that group.

That's what identity is, it's the set of things you consider yourself to be. "I am" and "I consider myself to be" are very simple clauses.

How big or small a part you decide to make your identities part of your personality is up to you, but like, they are still part of your identity.

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