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Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#101

Post by slg »

gitfan86 wrote: post #96
coolbreezetft22 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I'd imagine Tesla is better off with Musk being distracted by his shiny new toy. Though I'd be concerned about the effect he is having on their brand image. Even two years ago I was on the verge of buying a Tesla but ended up cancelling my order in large part because I just couldn't stand the obnoxiousness of Elon and he has gotten orders of magnitude worse since then. His new "demographic"/cult also se…

It is totally fine if you don't like Elon, but in the real world there isn't an EV that is cheap and available and has a good charging network. The ID4 is decent but that company was started by actual Hitler and Nazis, so if you are interested in not buying from companies that have a history of evil leadership that one isn't a good option. And gas cars are not good for CO2 emissions, so sometimes you have to accept t…

> The ID4 is decent but that company was started by actual Hitler and Nazis, so if you are interested in not buying from companies that have a history of evil leadership that one isn't a good option.

This is a wild comment. The current leadership is slightly more important than the leadership 80 years ago. It is especially strange considering you could have made moral arguments against that company based off much more recent misdeeds.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#103

Post by strawhatguy »

ncr100 wrote: post #67
jakelazaroff wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretend you don’t know anything about the different levels. You’re just a random person looking to buy a car. What does “full self driving” sound like to you?

I feel our government should regulate this kind of speech more aggressively, to boost the safety of the public. The messaging by Tesla has been misleading, yes. There have been many other examples of couching date-slippage and over-promises with phrases like "no promises but Cybertruck|FSD|Model 3|Rockets|AI|Robotics|Neural-Link|End-Of-The-World should be here in two years." Announcing a capability, and importantly M…

No. I stopped at “the government should…”

That never goes the way you think it will.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#104

Post by ryantgtg »

gitfan86 wrote: post #96
coolbreezetft22 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I'd imagine Tesla is better off with Musk being distracted by his shiny new toy. Though I'd be concerned about the effect he is having on their brand image. Even two years ago I was on the verge of buying a Tesla but ended up cancelling my order in large part because I just couldn't stand the obnoxiousness of Elon and he has gotten orders of magnitude worse since then. His new "demographic"/cult also se…

It is totally fine if you don't like Elon, but in the real world there isn't an EV that is cheap and available and has a good charging network. The ID4 is decent but that company was started by actual Hitler and Nazis, so if you are interested in not buying from companies that have a history of evil leadership that one isn't a good option. And gas cars are not good for CO2 emissions, so sometimes you have to accept t…

Shell/Chevron/Exxon/etc vs Elon. Hmm, let me think…

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#105

Post by Mistletoe »

coolbreezetft22 wrote: post #77
perardi wrote: post #19

Well fortunately Tesla has a laser-focused CEO that is devoting his time to making sure a feature which he clearly stated was absolutely critical is being responsibly developed and marketed. Really grateful for that—I’d hate to think this publicly traded company that had a sky-high valuation that was, in part, based off this promise was being led by somebody who is off in the weeds worried about social media or somet…

At this point I'd imagine Tesla is better off with Musk being distracted by his shiny new toy. Though I'd be concerned about the effect he is having on their brand image. Even two years ago I was on the verge of buying a Tesla but ended up cancelling my order in large part because I just couldn't stand the obnoxiousness of Elon and he has gotten orders of magnitude worse since then. His new "demographic"/cult also se…

I had the same exact response and cancelled mine around the time of the tweets about the Pelosi attack he made. It’s a shame, we loved our last Tesla but I can’t stand the thought of being associated with him. We were supposed to pick it up the week he made those tweets.

I was his former prime target demographic. I feel very strongly about protecting the environment, I hate gasoline engines after working on them most of my life, I loved how economical it was to drive an electric car, I love technology, and I could afford a Tesla. I don’t know what his new demographic is but I don’t think they even can buy a Tesla or will. I wish him lots of luck. Based on my experiences in a small town, his new demographic buys dually trucks listening to alt right propaganda and lives check to check working in the oilfield. Or is on a very fixed income and is retired and stays at home afraid, watching Fox News, with their last car in the driveway, a 1997 Oldsmobile or Buick.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#106

Post by coolbreezetft22 »

gitfan86 wrote: post #96
coolbreezetft22 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I'd imagine Tesla is better off with Musk being distracted by his shiny new toy. Though I'd be concerned about the effect he is having on their brand image. Even two years ago I was on the verge of buying a Tesla but ended up cancelling my order in large part because I just couldn't stand the obnoxiousness of Elon and he has gotten orders of magnitude worse since then. His new "demographic"/cult also se…

It is totally fine if you don't like Elon, but in the real world there isn't an EV that is cheap and available and has a good charging network. The ID4 is decent but that company was started by actual Hitler and Nazis, so if you are interested in not buying from companies that have a history of evil leadership that one isn't a good option. And gas cars are not good for CO2 emissions, so sometimes you have to accept t…

Interestingly I did end up buying an ID4 and it's been great for a full year now.

It's not perfect but I like that is has more of a "traditional" interior compared to Tesla, which felt kind of like a giant tablet with a car-shaped case around it. That design was already making me hesitant and Elon with his endless stream of nonsense was the straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#107

Post by BoorishBears »

mjhay wrote: post #88
cloudking wrote: post #59

FSD beta is fairly good, certainly better than the standard Autopilot. It's definitely not perfect, but so far for basic driving from point A to B it seems to work well. I can only see the tech improving as it gathers more data and feedback. It's a ML training data problem at this point, no?

Real FSD, where it is not necessary to have a human ready to take the controls at any time, isn't something you can just get more training data for. It's just that current ML methods aren't up for the task. Basically, it turns out you need to have something that can think , and ML is nowhere near that.

That is what no one at all wants.

Tesla seems to be taking the big ball of ML approach, and that relies on a model that can practically think, and that in turn means you're essentially waiting on AGI. Which is ridiculous.

Instead you break down the problem that is driving. Throw pieces of ML at specific problems, like traffic light classifiers, but have a much more structured approach to the high level decisions that are made.

The benefit of this is that you gain clear introspection into why your vehicle is making the decisions it makes, and a direct way to influence them other than "throw in more data and hope next time it makes the right decision!"

The latter is how you kill people, and it's what Tesla has been doing so far.

-

Hint for other readers: Please read the comment if you want to write a reply to it.

Literally nothing was said about people wanting a car you can just get into, but of course the first reply didn't make it 2 sentences in before jumping to completely orthogonal conclusions to anything that was even remotely implied in this comment.

It just gets exhausting to have a conversation about a topic like this if you have to repeat every point 10 times over.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#108

Post by coolbreezetft22 »

slg wrote: post #101
gitfan86 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is totally fine if you don't like Elon, but in the real world there isn't an EV that is cheap and available and has a good charging network. The ID4 is decent but that company was started by actual Hitler and Nazis, so if you are interested in not buying from companies that have a history of evil leadership that one isn't a good option. And gas cars are not good for CO2 emissions, so sometimes you have to accept t…

> The ID4 is decent but that company was started by actual Hitler and Nazis, so if you are interested in not buying from companies that have a history of evil leadership that one isn't a good option. This is a wild comment. The current leadership is slightly more important than the leadership 80 years ago. It is especially strange considering you could have made moral arguments against that company based off much mor…

Yep, there was 'diesel-gate' back in the early-mid 2010s and even today the way the company overlooks the behavior of the Chinese government is also very unsavory (a problem Elon has as well)

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#110

Post by mandeepj »

coolbreezetft22 wrote: post #77
perardi wrote: post #19

Well fortunately Tesla has a laser-focused CEO that is devoting his time to making sure a feature which he clearly stated was absolutely critical is being responsibly developed and marketed. Really grateful for that—I’d hate to think this publicly traded company that had a sky-high valuation that was, in part, based off this promise was being led by somebody who is off in the weeds worried about social media or somet…

At this point I'd imagine Tesla is better off with Musk being distracted by his shiny new toy. Though I'd be concerned about the effect he is having on their brand image. Even two years ago I was on the verge of buying a Tesla but ended up cancelling my order in large part because I just couldn't stand the obnoxiousness of Elon and he has gotten orders of magnitude worse since then. His new "demographic"/cult also se…

> I just couldn't stand the obnoxiousness of Elon and he has gotten orders of magnitude worse since then

For the same reason, I call him now - eww-Lawn!

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