[deleted]
Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud
81–90 of 394 posts
Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud
#82A refund or credit of 15K for everybody who ordered it - simple.
Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud
#83The failure to understand the context of the quote is palpable in both the article and comments.
This is a standard legal argument used as a defence against allegations of fraud, and it’s not a judgment of how successful (or not) the product is. The only thing it means is “notwithstanding whether we’ve achieved our goals, we have been honest and well-intentioned”.
Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only time I touch the controls on the car is to input the address I want to be driven to.
And you can use it like a taxi service and send a non-driving human as a passenger. Or no passenger and just send it to an address to retrieve or deliver a package.
My ultimate dream is to be able to more or less avoid flying. Hop in my car at 11pm, punch in address, pull out the lay-flat seat, go to sleep, wake-up 7-8 hours away. If I make it a day trip, I can do the entire thing in reverse never having had to pay for a hotel.
Living on the coast, I would still have to resort to flying, but there are many places I would enjoy that are reachable in an eight hour drive.
Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud
#85I welcome the public's acknowledgement that self-driving vehicles are completely infeasible for even the medium term future. It's just unfortunate that the trigger for this change seems not to be anything about snow, or the inability to replicate human flocking on buried/unmarked roads during winter, etc, but instead more about the current political fallout from Musk's take-over of Twitter.
This is a weird amount of hubris for someone who either doesn't understand the goals of current work on self-driving cars or is just clueless about the field.
Tesla's attempts at self-driving capture absolutely nothing besides... Tesla's attempts at self-driving.
There are companies with realistic sensor stacks, not artificially imposing restrictions so they can pre-sell their results, actually focused on self-driving.
A true L5 vehicle is an impossibility because that'd mean handling the frozen tundra equally as well as rush hour in Mumbai, or a wildfire in California. And laypeople tend to really lean into that...
But for a realistic definition of L5, "feasibility" is low bar already proven by major players except Tesla. So to say "completely infeasible" kind of kills credibility of everything following it.
Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud
#86Saying you want to climb Mount Everest and not being able to get all the way to the top is failure, not fraud. The fact that Musk charged people to watch muddies the waters a bit, though.
Putting up a doctored video demonstrating FSD to me seems like a massive fraud.
"Doctored" as a colloquial term covers a lot of things, some of which are massive frauds and some of which aren't. It's misleading for sure to have the car drive around a bunch and release only the best 3 minute segment. But as long as the car really was driving, I don't think it's fraud, any more than it's fraud for a restaurant to post only their most perfectly plated dishes to Instagram.
Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud
#87It might be a plausible argument for stuff sold 6 years ago when the future was uncertain. But in 2022 I'm not seeing how it's plausible as an excuse. Considering it's still being sold and marketed as 'Full self driving'. Clearly even level 4 autonomy is far beyond what any near future technology is capable of. If at the very least due to the fact that a very commonly encountered condition, construction work, effecti…
What do you mean? Waymo and Cruise have already deployed level 4 vehicles.
Can you link to the source claiming that?
Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud
#88FSD beta is fairly good, certainly better than the standard Autopilot. It's definitely not perfect, but so far for basic driving from point A to B it seems to work well. I can only see the tech improving as it gathers more data and feedback. It's a ML training data problem at this point, no?
Real FSD, where it is not necessary to have a human ready to take the controls at any time, isn't something you can just get more training data for. It's just that current ML methods aren't up for the task. Basically, it turns out you need to have something that can think, and ML is nowhere near that.
Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud
#89Well fortunately Tesla has a laser-focused CEO that is devoting his time to making sure a feature which he clearly stated was absolutely critical is being responsibly developed and marketed. Really grateful for that—I’d hate to think this publicly traded company that had a sky-high valuation that was, in part, based off this promise was being led by somebody who is off in the weeds worried about social media or somet…
Good thing that this publicly traded company hasn’t loaned out employees to other unrelated businesses which happen to be owned by their CEO. I’d that happened, I would worry about the distraction being more widespread than just the CEO.
Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud
#90> In its defense, Tesla lawyers said that “mere failure to realize a long-term, aspirational goal is not fraud.”
absolutely spectacular work from the lawyers