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Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

latimes.com

31–40 of 394 posts

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#31

This header is misleading. Lawyers are making a legal point, not a prediction on the tech or where it stands and certainly not saying "its a failure". They don't even have the technical insight to make that assertion.

They're also not saying it's "a failure", they're saying "failure to realize a goal is not fraud". There is a strong semantic difference between "we have failed to realize the goal (yet)" and "we have failed at realizing the goal (permanently)".

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#32
I welcome the public's acknowledgement that self-driving vehicles are completely infeasible for even the medium term future. It's just unfortunate that the trigger for this change seems not to be anything about snow, or the inability to replicate human flocking on buried/unmarked roads during winter, etc, but instead more about the current political fallout from Musk's take-over of Twitter.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#33
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretend you don’t know anything about the different levels. You’re just a random person looking to buy a car. What does “full self driving” sound like to you?

I don't necessarily disagree, but I offer a couple of counterarguments: A. Most people who bought this knew what it was, that it was unfinished, and they were funding the research (which is a public good to some extent) B. There should be some degree of burden on the customer to research what they are buying, especially with a claim as extraordinary as "Full Self-Driving"

Maybe the burden should be on the seller to call it “unfinished and unreliable attempt at self driving” instead?

The idea that we don’t let marketers make misleading product claims is very old. As a society our point of view is that no, actually the burden of proof should not be on the customer to figure out if a tube labeled “toothpaste” is actually wet gypsum or something.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#34
post #3

Saying you want to climb Mount Everest and not being able to get all the way to the top is failure, not fraud. The fact that Musk charged people to watch muddies the waters a bit, though.

Many people successfully climbed Mount Everest so this is not apples to apples.

Musk said it is economically insane to buy any other car, because in the near future they will update your Tesla with newest self-driving software, and you will be able to make at least $30,000 a year by using your car as a self-driving taxi. With Tesla at price-tag of around $60,000, he was advertising a staggering 50% annual rate-of-return.

If you want to make a similar claim, it would be like he advertised getting to the Mars (something hasn't been done before) and make it so cheap you be able to sale tickets to other people at huge discount and make profit that way but only if you buy his non-existing technology now.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#35
post #19

Well fortunately Tesla has a laser-focused CEO that is devoting his time to making sure a feature which he clearly stated was absolutely critical is being responsibly developed and marketed. Really grateful for that—I’d hate to think this publicly traded company that had a sky-high valuation that was, in part, based off this promise was being led by somebody who is off in the weeds worried about social media or somet…

No post body was provided.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#37
post #19

Well fortunately Tesla has a laser-focused CEO that is devoting his time to making sure a feature which he clearly stated was absolutely critical is being responsibly developed and marketed. Really grateful for that—I’d hate to think this publicly traded company that had a sky-high valuation that was, in part, based off this promise was being led by somebody who is off in the weeds worried about social media or somet…

People have attributed a lot of overinflated image to Musk and his effects and skills over the years, regarding Tesla, SpaceX, and other companies of his.

They still are doing so about this Twitter thing. It’s all a nothing burger.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#38
post #35
post #19

Well fortunately Tesla has a laser-focused CEO that is devoting his time to making sure a feature which he clearly stated was absolutely critical is being responsibly developed and marketed. Really grateful for that—I’d hate to think this publicly traded company that had a sky-high valuation that was, in part, based off this promise was being led by somebody who is off in the weeds worried about social media or somet…

Quoted post unavailable.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretend you don’t know anything about the different levels. You’re just a random person looking to buy a car. What does “full self driving” sound like to you?

The only time I touch the controls on the car is to input the address I want to be driven to.

And you can use it like a taxi service and send a non-driving human as a passenger. Or no passenger and just send it to an address to retrieve or deliver a package.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretend you don’t know anything about the different levels. You’re just a random person looking to buy a car. What does “full self driving” sound like to you?

It would sound like it could handle all commonly occurring road conditions. Such as rain, fog, snow, construction work, tunnels, bridges, downtown intersections, bike lanes, etc... I wouldn't expect it to handle rare phenomena such as hurricanes, hail storms, a collapsed bridge, etc...

Tesla FSD can barely handle a balmy 70 degree day, so I think you'd be disappointed.

I might biased because I work on actual self-driving efforts, but nothing at all about Tesla has ever indicated they were serious about solving self driving in any capacity.

The day that Elon proclaimed they already had the sensor suite decided was the day that they openly admitted this was fraud.

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