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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#91

Post by pjerem »

eastbound wrote: post #64
roenxi wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time the Australian government does something authoritarian I double my Monero holdings (I'm about to have to give that strategy up :[, unfortunately). If the government starts spinning out of control to the point where people actually need to start dodging these invasive financial laws, those gold coins are going to get seized.

France requires that you declare all funds or “digital accounts” (assets, not only currencies) owned overseas, and made it legal to impose a one-off seizure on all accounts above 100k€ overnight, like they did in Cyrpus. The world behaves as if countries were going to seize all privately-owned assets and make you live on salary.

Well it’s not that. Everything is seized because the money in your bank isn’t technically yours. This is the same wherever in the world. However, there exists a public fund that guarantees that, in case of a bankruptcy of your bank, you’ll be compensated by this fund up to 100k€.

So it’s technically impossible to lose anything if you don’t have more than 100k€ in a checking account. Which, even if you were rich, would be a rather stupid move because you don’t earn any interest on this. If your patrimony is superior to 100k€, you probably own financial assets rather than money in your checking accounts. And since you own your financial assets and your bank is only doing the management for you, they can’t be seized because they aren’t owned by the bank.

So it’s blatantly false to say that you can be seized of anything above 100k€. You’ve got to manage your money really badly to be bitten by this.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#92

Post by hayd »

alkonaut wrote: post #74
hayd wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case then there's no need for this regulation.

I don’t see how that’s related. It’s one thing to regulate who must and must not accept cash. E.g it’s in the interest of society to mandate important functions such as buying food is always possible with cash. The law in the article is about a size limit for cash transactions when cash is accepted. It doesn’t have anything to do with who will or must accept cash. Only that if they do, there is a limit.

You say people won't accept 10k+ cash payments but nevertheless such payments should be banned. Why? if no-one would accept them anyway.

Whether people accept large cash payments should be entirely up to them.

> E.g it’s in the interest of society to mandate important functions such as buying food is always possible with cash.

Give it ten years.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#93

Post by Canada »

Havoc wrote: post #5

This one kinda makes sense to me. Can't really think of any good legitimate use cases for large amounts of cash. Closest I can think of say a bar or something similarly cash heavy getting cash and paying suppliers directly. (which is in itself problematic @ tax)

I want to be able to pay for at least a year of rent without relying on a bank.

I want to be able to pay for as much as possible without leaving any record with a third party if I don't want to.

I also want to be able to take all of my money out of the bank and keep it for myself, and give it to whoever I want, whenever I want, without having anyone's permission to do so, or reporting that I have done so to anyone.

Why is that illegitimate?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#94

Post by beefield »

sphinxster wrote: post #60
beefield wrote: post #21

It's a pity that the venn diagrams of people who understand the need for private money transactions and people who understand the macroeconomic need of (occasional) negative interest rates do not in practice seem to overlap.

Why is it a pity? Over time it will be revealed which group was thinking with the most clarity and prudence.

It's a pity because we should be seeking solutions for both problems, money system allowing negative rates and private transactions. They should not exclude each other because both are important for different reasons.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#95

Post by wizeman »

alkonaut wrote: post #83
wizeman wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And while the value might be there, both are a massive hassle for the seller, so they’d simply refuse most likely. And the "hassle" is not actually accepting cash, as that's the least of the problems. It's dealing with the risk and consequences of doing business with someone the government doesn't approve of and then getting in trouble for it (even though the car business has nothing to do with that person). You're…

> You're arguing like if the salesperson is not accepting cash out of their own free will. But you know that's not true. Whose fault is it? I mean they literally don’t and as far as I know this is because is insecure and expensive. A bag of cash is an expensive liability. They’d prefer I deposited the money and transfered it to them instead. Most restaurants and cafes don’t accept cash either although they are certai…

> Most restaurants and cafes don’t accept cash either although they are certainly free to do so.

Ok, so I'm curious about this place where you live where most restaurants don't accept cash, so here's a question:

Let's say you enter the restaurant, eat the food and now you owe payment, but you don't have a credit card (maybe you didn't notice the "no cash" sign).

Legal tender laws say that cash must be accepted as payment for all debts. So how can the restaurant refuse the cash?

That only seems to be legal if the customer prepays for the food, which is not what happens in most restaurants (fast food restaurants notwithstanding).

Is there a special exemption for restaurants where you live, or you don't have legal tender laws, or what's going on here?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#97

Post by alkonaut »

wizeman wrote: post #90
alkonaut wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're arguing like if the salesperson is not accepting cash out of their own free will. But you know that's not true. Whose fault is it? I mean they literally don’t and as far as I know this is because is insecure and expensive. A bag of cash is an expensive liability. They’d prefer I deposited the money and transfered it to them instead. Most restaurants and cafes don’t accept cash either although they are certai…

> Whose fault is it? I mean they literally don’t and as far as I know this is because is insecure and expensive. "Under AML regulations, anyone involved in vehicle sales can face significant fines and even criminal prosecution if they fail to detect money laundering. This includes law firms, banks as well as vehicle dealers—who can be any individual or business that trades vehicles or acts as an intermediary in their…

This is in Sweden. Cash is mostly gone. Restaurants where you eat first and pay later usually accept it reluctantly, unless they made clear up front they don’t (they have no choice then - you already ate and unlike the opposite no-card-situation where you are forced to go to an atm, you can hardly go make a deposit!). But stores, cafes etc are cashless to a large extent (but with lots of exceptions or partial exceptions e.g a grocery store might have 1 register of 10 accepting cash which means you don’t want to use cash).

Overall, the vast majority of retailers do accept cash in some form but not in usual “small transaction” situations like cafes, taxis, smaller shops.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#98

Post by mgbmtl »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #89
mgbmtl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To monitor for... corruption? From the point of view of the state, tax evasion these days is by far the highest priority.

I can't find a single sensible reason why tax evasion would be the highest priority of EU governments... IMHO there are pages of more pressing issues.

Sure, but those other problems need funding.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#99

Post by mytailorisrich »

mgbmtl wrote: post #98
mytailorisrich wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find a single sensible reason why tax evasion would be the highest priority of EU governments... IMHO there are pages of more pressing issues.

Sure, but those other problems need funding.

Tax levels are high and tax are being collected. Governments aren't short of money because of tax evasion.

Tax evasion is not a top priority however you look at it... the argument sounds like "but think of the children" to justify things that are actually motivated by other aims and/or ideological reasons.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#100

Post by alwayslikethis »

m00dy wrote: post #30

I think another important thing to mention is that there is a regulation on centralized crypto exchanges about unhosted wallets. Therefore, this regulation is completely against defi I would say.

Let's stop saying 'unhosted wallets'. Those are exchange accounts, the contents of which you have access too solely by the mercy of the exchange.
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