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Time to end the war on drugs

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Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#61

Post by melling »

powertower wrote: post #59

Without the war on drugs this would happen: 1. Half the law enforcement, out of the job. 2. Half the lawyers and the judges, out of the job. 3. Half the privatized prison system, out of the job. 4. A few million other jobs that support and/or depend on the above, done away with. It's pointless to even try this in the USA... No one is going to be willing to give up the ongoing and ever-giving spoils of the war on drug…

Do you have actual facts to support your statements that you can reference? It's fine to make a case for one side or the other but I find it really doesn't help either side if we just make up facts because it takes time to sort them all out.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#62

Post by melling »

TobiasCassell wrote: post #31

If drugs are legalized the United States will be forced to dream up and create other reasons to keep its military outposts in hundreds of countries. This is why we maintain a war on drugs. A war that is impossible to win. The United States will never legalize drugs. PS I'm with richard Branson, but he is being naive or he is not mentioning these elements on purpose as a strategy. Edit; Forgot to mention the United St…

What you are saying is absurd and it doesn't help. At this point, I think many people believe the "war on drugs" is a wasted effort. The best way to make this case would be to show how the American consumer is destroying lives in other countries. Americans trying to have a good time are indirectly killing innocent people in order to get the products they desire into their hands.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#63

Post by beardicus »

torrenegra wrote: post #29

The Colombian president, Juan Manuel Santos (also an entrepreneur), recently called for the legalization of many drugs, including cocaine: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/13/colombia-juan-sa... I'm a NYC-based, Colombian entrepreneur. My step-brother died piloting a Black Hawk helicopter in Colombia that crashed while executing an anti-narcotics operation. The helicopter was "donated" by the US as part of "P…

Glyphosate == Roundup(TM). This is the most used herbicide in the US... certainly not banned. Regardless, I agree with your conclusion.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#64

Post by dlokshin »

melling wrote: post #61
powertower wrote: post #59

Without the war on drugs this would happen: 1. Half the law enforcement, out of the job. 2. Half the lawyers and the judges, out of the job. 3. Half the privatized prison system, out of the job. 4. A few million other jobs that support and/or depend on the above, done away with. It's pointless to even try this in the USA... No one is going to be willing to give up the ongoing and ever-giving spoils of the war on drug…

Do you have actual facts to support your statements that you can reference? It's fine to make a case for one side or the other but I find it really doesn't help either side if we just make up facts because it takes time to sort them all out.

Federal government spent $15B on drug enforcement, prevention, etc. in 2010. Clearly lots of jobs.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#65

Post by sunchild »

powertower wrote: post #59

Without the war on drugs this would happen: 1. Half the law enforcement, out of the job. 2. Half the lawyers and the judges, out of the job. 3. Half the privatized prison system, out of the job. 4. A few million other jobs that support and/or depend on the above, done away with. It's pointless to even try this in the USA... No one is going to be willing to give up the ongoing and ever-giving spoils of the war on drug…

Replace "out of the job" with "back on jobs that actually further the best interests of the public", and your post starts to make sense.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#66

Post by wpietri »

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #26
dvanduzer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bureaucratic issues aside, it does seem, on the surface, absurd that we can't just view the money spent fighting the War on Drugs as part of a big bucket that we could instead just pour all over medical treatment. Tossing the bureaucratic issues aside seems the larger problem.

I agree wholeheartedly. Viewing drug usage as a medical problem and funding free treatment seems to be a no brainer. That pesky problem seems to go back to Congress. I can just imagine the headlines: "Senator Blabla wants to release druggies who solicit behind YOUR KIDS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL!!!!" Citizens already appear to want harsher and harsher punishments for crimes. And then is the open question about what we do wit…

Well, the simple response is to say that we don't want to get rid of the cops; we want them to focus on real crime. In these times of limited resources, we must focus on the kingpins and predators, etc, etc.

I think the more subtle and meaningful response (and one therefore unworkable in what passes for political dialog in the US) is to recognize that we're dealing with the broken window fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

If we criminalize something relatively harmless, then all the apparent economic activity related to enforcement is pure waste.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#67

Post by zotz »

beardicus wrote: post #63
torrenegra wrote: post #29

The Colombian president, Juan Manuel Santos (also an entrepreneur), recently called for the legalization of many drugs, including cocaine: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/13/colombia-juan-sa... I'm a NYC-based, Colombian entrepreneur. My step-brother died piloting a Black Hawk helicopter in Colombia that crashed while executing an anti-narcotics operation. The helicopter was "donated" by the US as part of "P…

Glyphosate == Roundup(TM). This is the most used herbicide in the US... certainly not banned. Regardless, I agree with your conclusion.

Slightly OT, but hemp itself used to be used as an herbicide:

http://hogwaller.net/hemp.html

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#68

Post by powertower »

sunchild wrote: post #65
powertower wrote: post #59

Without the war on drugs this would happen: 1. Half the law enforcement, out of the job. 2. Half the lawyers and the judges, out of the job. 3. Half the privatized prison system, out of the job. 4. A few million other jobs that support and/or depend on the above, done away with. It's pointless to even try this in the USA... No one is going to be willing to give up the ongoing and ever-giving spoils of the war on drug…

Replace "out of the job" with "back on jobs that actually further the best interests of the public", and your post starts to make sense.

All those other in-demand jobs that are available right now, that just can't meet the supply?

Let see ... there is the $3/hour farm hand shortage going around in a few states.

Or do you mean all the new jobs that are going to be created, you know, just-like-that? For which they'll be re-trained, just-like-that? For which they'll get the same pay/benefits, just-like-that?

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#69

Post by mkr-hn »

macuenca wrote: post #60
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #37

Great article. I would like to further suggest we end the use of the word "war" in contexts that do not involve mandatory conscription and the deaths of large numbers of combatants until one side totally surrenders. (This implies there is a "side" to be able to surrender.) Politicians have so destroyed the word "war" that it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion about any use of violence by the state. Perhaps…

What you suggest not to call a "war" has killed thousands of people in countries like Mexico and Colombia[1]. Is this what you mean when you say "deaths of large numbers of combatants"? I come from a country that suffers this "war on drugs", I've had members of my family kidnapped, I've seen people being assassinated in front of me by hit-men. Some others haven't been that lucky. I, with you permission, call this a "…

All that is a product of treating it like a war. Terminology has a way of controlling how we think. Imagine if we called it a holiday on drugs.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#70

Post by tdfx »

macuenca wrote: post #60
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #37

Great article. I would like to further suggest we end the use of the word "war" in contexts that do not involve mandatory conscription and the deaths of large numbers of combatants until one side totally surrenders. (This implies there is a "side" to be able to surrender.) Politicians have so destroyed the word "war" that it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion about any use of violence by the state. Perhaps…

What you suggest not to call a "war" has killed thousands of people in countries like Mexico and Colombia[1]. Is this what you mean when you say "deaths of large numbers of combatants"? I come from a country that suffers this "war on drugs", I've had members of my family kidnapped, I've seen people being assassinated in front of me by hit-men. Some others haven't been that lucky. I, with you permission, call this a "…

Well-armed criminal groups and government forces can have a war. I don't think anyone disputes that. But you can't go to war against a concept (i.e. drug use).
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