Time to end the war on drugs • Hacker News Board

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#41

Post by flaviojuvenal » Mon, Dec 26, 2011, 3:05 PM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #20

A friend shared this link on Facebook, and I read through the article. I was very interested to note that Richard Branson bases much of his argument on the reduction in drug use in Portugal since the policy change decriminalizing possession of small amounts of drugs for personal use and referring users to medical treatment. Is this the societal consensus in other countries? Are most advocates of ending "the war on dr…

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123535114271444981.html Cardoso (former president of Brazil), Gaviria (former president of Colombia) and Zedillo (former president of Mexico) also share the opinion that the War on Drugs, a term first used by Nixon, has failed.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#42

Post by easy_rider » Mon, Dec 26, 2011, 3:10 PM UTC

mekoka wrote: post #38

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, you might want to look up the word "literally". I don't even find them terribly similar.

Actually, the part where he details the stats is practically verbatim. There are some nuances between both articles, but he could have provided a link to his sources. It always helps to learn more. Edit: After completing the Times article and rereading R. Branson's, I can confirm that the general flow is the same. In some parts, he only just paraphrases or summarizes, but the information is really the same.

I can actually see quite distinct similarities in the general flow of the article i.e. the sequence of subjects he touches.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#43

Post by crozo » Mon, Dec 26, 2011, 3:13 PM UTC

The parallels between the current war on drugs and the prohibition in the early XX century are staggering. Can we learn from that experience? The cost in USD and lives ruined that the war itself creates is greater than the cost of taking the profits a way from a few and running educational campaigns so people can take responsibility of what they do. For those of us living in countries where the front line of this war is being fought, is clear we are loosing a war that is not ours, neither worth fighting. But we keep on doing it because the US "pays" for it. Someday a future generation will look back and ask themselves how come they didn't realize it was a stupid war? were they less intelligent in those simpler times? And they will probably be right.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#44

Post by justincormack » Mon, Dec 26, 2011, 3:22 PM UTC

darklajid wrote: post #18

swah wrote: post #8

I don't understand how a world where making/selling something is a crime but consuming is not could work.

As far as I'm informed (read: I cannot back this up with legalese), this is the case in Germany as well, albeit limited to soft stuff/marijuana: - You are not allowed to buy it - You are not allowed to sell it - You can have a small amount of it in your possession, "for personal use" (declared as a maximum amount per substance, so that 'users' aren't in the same category as 'dealers' here)

Also Italy, not only for soft drugs. Europe is very liberal on drugs compared to US or Asia generally.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#45

Post by kreneskyp » Mon, Dec 26, 2011, 3:23 PM UTC

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #5

One has to remember that Portugal did not completely legalize drugs. Possession of small amounts and usage were legalized. Dealing is still a big crime there, due to the citizens of Portugal not wanting to be akin the worlds drug den. The different viewpoint of legalizing usage was that it is a medical problem, and not a evil crime. Even that said, Portugal also made their problems less severe by bringing them out in…

The idea of "drug tourists" is absurd. The worst of the illicit drug addicts can barely take care of themselves. They choose drugs over food and showers. They can't hold jobs and resort to crime to feed their habits. Access to drugs isn't their problem else they wouldn't have become addicts in the first place. They aren't going to spend their money to travel to Portugal even if they can afford it.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#46

Post by heynk » Mon, Dec 26, 2011, 3:25 PM UTC

gcv wrote: post #40

zotz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies such as Monsanto and DuPont (not to mention a host of others) are among the ones that were glad to see hemp made illegal back in the 1930's. Any hemp-based economy is a threat to centralized industrial concerns. With the invention of the hemp decorticator in the 1910's (the cotton gin of hemp) by George Schlichten, hemp's potential as an industrial crop to replace petroleum was unlocked. Large, centralized…

> hemp's potential as an industrial crop to replace petroleum was unlocked. Could you clarify this statement? Are you saying hemp can be efficiently used as a fuel?

You can easily dig around for more sources, but I've attached the wiki link, which has some information about fuel usage and many other uses. From what I can remember it's about as viable as biofuels from corn (maybe a bit better) but still not really production quality. Hemp's biggest advantage is the strength of it's fibers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#47

Post by asto » Mon, Dec 26, 2011, 3:28 PM UTC

gcv wrote: post #40

zotz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies such as Monsanto and DuPont (not to mention a host of others) are among the ones that were glad to see hemp made illegal back in the 1930's. Any hemp-based economy is a threat to centralized industrial concerns. With the invention of the hemp decorticator in the 1910's (the cotton gin of hemp) by George Schlichten, hemp's potential as an industrial crop to replace petroleum was unlocked. Large, centralized…

> hemp's potential as an industrial crop to replace petroleum was unlocked. Could you clarify this statement? Are you saying hemp can be efficiently used as a fuel?

Hemp as fuel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp#Fuel

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#48

Post by heynk » Mon, Dec 26, 2011, 3:29 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #2

Even coming from a respectable industry leader like Richard Branson, this will almost certainly be ignored. Here's an interesting question: what would end the war on drugs? Is it something that can be made to happen by sane, enterprising individuals?

A lot of the biggest opposition to pot legalization measures is the pharma industry (#1 lobbyers in the US, in terms of money spent). In many ways marijuana is a better alternative than prescription pills for pain and other medical treatment.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#49

Post by asto » Mon, Dec 26, 2011, 3:32 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #12

tomjen3 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swombat you have a brand here -- don't throw it away with low quality comments. It is not very difficult to convince Monsanto if they can make more money in some other way -- it may not be something that can be solved by gcc, but when has raw computer programming talent ever been the deciding factor for a computer programmer?

I don't see it as a low quality comment. If it's not very difficult to convince Monsanto of this, then please do it right away, if it has the benefit of ending the war on drugs. If you can't be bothered to do it yourself, then pray tell us the 5 easy steps to convincing Monsanto to start exploiting Marijuana and therefore decriminalise all drugs. Unless you think, as I do, that the above is a fantasy and has no pract…

There is a big downside to getting it done by companies like Monsanto (or tobacco companies as mentioned in another thread below) - Insane public opposition. Drugs and their users are already perceived to be "morally bad". Club them with a company that people don't like for similar reasons and you have a solution that will never see the light of day.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#50

Post by l0tics » Mon, Dec 26, 2011, 3:32 PM UTC

darklajid wrote: post #18

swah wrote: post #8

I don't understand how a world where making/selling something is a crime but consuming is not could work.

As far as I'm informed (read: I cannot back this up with legalese), this is the case in Germany as well, albeit limited to soft stuff/marijuana: - You are not allowed to buy it - You are not allowed to sell it - You can have a small amount of it in your possession, "for personal use" (declared as a maximum amount per substance, so that 'users' aren't in the same category as 'dealers' here)

I hope people realize that what Portugal is doing only puts all drugs in a similar legal category to alcohol during its "prohibition" in the United States. This solves none of the supply side issues and their current laws are surely still contributing to a miserable and violent black market.

What we have instead here in the United States (and attempt to force onto other countries) is a view that all use is abuse, regardless of any reasoning, even medicinal use. We can't even grow it for research or non-drug uses because of federal agencies that want to continue this for as long as possible. Today I can buy marijuana at retail stores here in Michigan. There is no violence associated with buying it from people who just grew it in their house and brought it there to sell to me.