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Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

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Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#51

Post by Archelaos »

rsj_hn wrote: post #42
ziml77 wrote: post #36

"Fatalities per 1,000 kilometers of motorway" That doesn't seem like a very good metric to me. There's no way there's any single number that can properly compare driving deaths between countries, but shouldn't this at least be normalized to account for number of drivers? Like what if Finland just has a lot of long, empty roads? Also doesn't there need to be a comparison within the German data on deaths on roads with…

Fatalities should be measured in terms of miles travelled. Not per mile of highway, or per number of cars, or per capita. Someone who drives five days a week, 60 miles per day is going to have a higher risk of getting into an accident that someone who drives only on weekends, 30 miles per day. This does have any bearing on how safe the roads are.

I agree with you that miles travelled is a better metric.

But traffic density would be another interesting metric. Temporary speed limits on the autobahn are typically dynamically adjusted to the traffic situation.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#53

Post by rad_gruchalski »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #13

Myth #1: is a non-reason to ban it. Non-usage of something is not a reason to get rid of something Myth #2: I've never met someone who is like: oh if I cannot drive 200kmph I'll be late to my meeting. That's not why people drive fast. They do because it's fun! Myth #3: Emissions are taxed. Car consumes more, so you pay more taxes. Myth #4: You cannot push everybody to electric cars and then yell: oh but the electrici…

> I've never met someone who is like: oh if I cannot drive 200kmph I'll be late to my meeting. That's not why people drive fast. They do because it's fun!

There’s nothing fun about going 200+ in a straight line. It’s more fun to drive fast on a bendy country road. The thing is, most people have no clue how to handle a car. People drive fast on the Autobahn because of the ego and because it is allowed.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#54

Post by jupp0r »

"The actual greenhouse gas emissions depend on the energy mix used for charging the batteries, but as long as we do not have abundant climate-neutral energy, it makes sense to save energy by driving at lower speeds."

This argument (often also applied to the size of cars) is something I often read. It's an instance of the perfectionist fallacy. Electric cars are more harmful than gasoline powered cars if the energy they are powered by comes from coal plants. We must switch to carbon free energy. If we take that as a given, speed limits don't make sense from a climate change perspective. There are still other reasons why speed limits are beneficial (safety for example), but I think people arguing with carbon intensive electricity production in cases like this are not doing climate friendly transportation any favors.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#55

Post by Dah00n »

_0w8t wrote: post #46

I drove through Germany few times. While there were mostly no speed limits on Autobahns, the were a lot of “repairs” when halve of the road was closed and another was converted into 2-way road with a speed limit of 60-70 km/hour and very narrow lines. And then such section can last for 10-20 kilometers with zero activity besides couple of spots. I have never experienced such way to do repairs in Denmark, France, Ital…

This is how they always do repairs in Denmark. I should know as I drive though such an area on the way to Odense 4 times a week. 80km/t speed limit for 10-20km and it has been there for years.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#56

Post by AnonymousPlanet »

tensorturtle wrote: post #9

Proponents of unlimited speed Autobahn could argue: 1. The tourism value: I anecdotally know people visit Germany just for the Autobahn. (See Nürburgring, which is technically an Autobahn) 2. Sale of performance cars: The high actual minimum speed (from my experience you need to drive at around 150km/h in the middle lane, and 180-200km/h to pass on the left lane). Almost anywhere else in the world, the top speed of c…

You have it the wrong way around. The fact that German drivers have to go through rigorous driving lessons by a licensed teacher is the reason they are allowed higher speeds. If your driving license can be obtained by scooting around for a couple of hours with your dad at your side and then do a DMV test that consists of driving once around the block, you shouldn't be allowed to drive at dangerous speeds.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#57

Post by Retric »

14 wrote: post #33
WirelessGigabit wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having done 250kmph / 155mph on the German Autobahn I do wonder what why you feel like you should take the pleasure away from other people because you had a kid? No-one forces you to drive faster (1) and when driving you can stick to the right lane (2) and check your mirrors when you need to pass (3).

When I ride my motorbike it rides comfortably at about 160km/hr. For that bike it is a very comfortable speed the bike likes. If I want to rip it can do 180plus. It maxes out at 200km/hr. Even at 200 really isn’t that fast for the open highways where I live. But a huge majority of the driver population has a hard time driving at sub 80km/hr speeds so we kind of need to adjust for the lowest denominator. I think the b…

Feeling comfortable has almost nothing to do with actually being safe at those speeds.

People talk about the Dunning-Kruger effect all the time because it’s so insidious. Doing 200kph on a good bike is very unlikely to kill you the first time. You’re terrified and try and minimize the risks, but soon you’ve done it a few times and it feels old hat. What changed wasn’t skills just desensitization so people end up having higher risk as they start to feel more safe.

There are ways to actually get better, but it’s always going to be extremely dangerous and if you start to think differently it’s very much time to stop.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#58

Post by Dah00n »

devit wrote: post #15
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those limits are for noise levels and surface conditions.

For noise, they should either build a barrier or buy out the properties nearby, certainly not limit the speed. And for surface conditions, repave the road.

Let me guess... Do you drive a BMW or AUDI?

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#59

Post by ygra »

tensorturtle wrote: post #9

Proponents of unlimited speed Autobahn could argue: 1. The tourism value: I anecdotally know people visit Germany just for the Autobahn. (See Nürburgring, which is technically an Autobahn) 2. Sale of performance cars: The high actual minimum speed (from my experience you need to drive at around 150km/h in the middle lane, and 180-200km/h to pass on the left lane). Almost anywhere else in the world, the top speed of c…

The Nürburgring is a private road and does not meet criteria for calling it an Autobahn (it's a one-way road without lanes, which kinda rules out Autobahn-ness).

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#60

Post by msigwart »

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