GB National Grid Status • Hacker News Board

Re: GB National Grid Status

#71

Post by bearbin » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 6:53 PM UTC

corradio wrote: post #65

bearbin wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The visualisation on that site is good, but it's sadly plauged with data errors. The UK data doesn't seem to correspond to any other source I can find. I think it might be delayed by 24 hours, but even that doesn't seem quite right...

A GitHub issue was filed regarding this: https://github.com/electricitymaps/electricitymaps-contrib/i...

Well, that issue explains a lot. The data source went missing, so the website just made up some data and used that instead!

That whole website is a nonsense, what's the point in visualising imaginary data and pretending it's real...

Re: GB National Grid Status

#72

Post by Reason077 » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 7:27 PM UTC

IMSAI8080 wrote: post #51

There's quite a few of these. Here's another one that I prefer the UI of and I think is a bit clearer: https://grid.iamkate.com/

My favourite for showing UK grid data on a nice, clean, fast chart over custom timescales:

https://www.electricinsights.co.uk/#/dashboard

My favourite for showing many country's grids around the world, and the power flowing between them through interconnectors:

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map

Re: GB National Grid Status

#73

Post by 7952 » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 7:31 PM UTC

leg100 wrote: post #43

thomond wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doubly so now electricity prices are through the roof. Electricity prices would still be through the roof. The prices are all set on the international markets.

> Electricity prices would still be through the roof. The prices are all set on the international markets. Only to the extent that electricity can be imported and exported via international connectors, which are of course limited in their capacity. Prices are not set internationally, but domestically. Energy is not a tangible, stored commodity like coal which is internationally priced. If what you said was true then…

Gas prices are a big component of electricity prices at the moment and they are mostly imported.

Re: GB National Grid Status

#74

Post by boringg » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 7:36 PM UTC

IMSAI8080 wrote: post #51

There's quite a few of these. Here's another one that I prefer the UI of and I think is a bit clearer: https://grid.iamkate.com/

I love the data visualizations but I am always surprised to see so many different ones given how little use-cases they serve. They can broadly let people know where the power is coming for and help policy makers to a certain degree. They are just naturally interesting for a little bit while you explore but then drop off. It's almost like its most useful for exploratory data analysis and not a ton else

I'm curious if other people have interesting use cases here and how accurate is the data? Is this all people putting different layers on top of one source of truth for data - or patching together various sources?

Re: GB National Grid Status

#75

Post by 7952 » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

RyanShook wrote: post #14

Is wind an efficient way to produce electricity? Would we be producing wind turbines if there were 0 subsidies?

Wind turbines are capital intensive and the entire cost is upfront. Once the turbine is built it makes sense to sell it at whatever the current market rate is. That could be really low or really high. The main purpose of government support is to give some certainty about being able to pay off the debt. But that support has become less neccesary as costs go down and wholesale prices go up. Arguably the main benefit of setting prices upfront in the long term is avoiding price spikes and encouraging cost reduction. But there are also risks in terms of the cost of servicing debt as interest rates rise.

Re: GB National Grid Status

#76

Post by taxicabjesus » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 7:43 PM UTC

rjsw wrote: post #60

taxicabjesus wrote: post #35

On Friday, December 9th at ~4:00pm GMT (Greenwich mean time): Nuclear: 5.25 GW Wind: 3.84 GW Combined Cycle Gas Turbines: 23.31 GW Solar (Estimated): 0.35GW Installed Wind Capacity (onshore + offshore): 25 GW [0] Installed Solar Capacity: 13.4 GW [1] Total installed Wind/Solar: 38.4 GW. Total produced: 4.11 GW Wind is currently producing 15% of its installed capacity. Solar is producing 2.6% of its installed capacity…

There is a reason [1] why Solar is only generating a small fraction of installed capacity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night

I noted that it was 4pm. Just checked: sunset is at 3:51pm tomorrow. So that makes sense.

Even so, the available solar energy in the UK in December is ~1/5 what it is in June: https://www.viridiansolar.co.uk/resources-1-2-seasonal-varia...

Re: GB National Grid Status

#77

Post by alexpotato » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 8:06 PM UTC

I think it's cool that there are bitmaps for the dials and then separate bitmaps for each needle position.

You can see a lot of them here: http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/bitmaps

Re: GB National Grid Status

#78

Post by pydry » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 8:22 PM UTC

RyanShook wrote: post #14

Is wind an efficient way to produce electricity? Would we be producing wind turbines if there were 0 subsidies?

It's very cost effective. A wind generated MWh costs about £25 while a nuclear MWh is more in the region of £120.

If you use wind to generate electricity and use that to synthesize natural gas which you store and use to generate electricity the whole thing costs about £80-90.

Re: GB National Grid Status

#79

Post by pydry » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 8:45 PM UTC

jonatron wrote: post #44

taxicabjesus wrote: post #35

On Friday, December 9th at ~4:00pm GMT (Greenwich mean time): Nuclear: 5.25 GW Wind: 3.84 GW Combined Cycle Gas Turbines: 23.31 GW Solar (Estimated): 0.35GW Installed Wind Capacity (onshore + offshore): 25 GW [0] Installed Solar Capacity: 13.4 GW [1] Total installed Wind/Solar: 38.4 GW. Total produced: 4.11 GW Wind is currently producing 15% of its installed capacity. Solar is producing 2.6% of its installed capacity…

There's a few things that help with periods of low wind: More long distance transmission / interconnects Vehicle-to-grid Grid scale battery storage Domestic and commercial battery storage (Powerwall etc) Seasonal thermal storage - large insulated tanks or ground source heat pumps These all exist, and there will be more new technology coming. It doesn't seem like an unsolvable problem.

Also being 5x cheaper than nuclear power.

Re: GB National Grid Status

#80

Post by tialaramex » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 8:54 PM UTC

DrScientist wrote: post #26

jl6 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is too northerly and has too little spare land for solar to dominate (it will of course still play a large role). Wind is where it’s at. The UK has a vast and windy offshore domain.

Agreed. But note that a lot of the local solar capacity doesn't actually show up on the grid production numbers. ie if you have a solar panel on your roof and mostly use it to reduce the power you take from the grid, all you will see in the national numbers is lower demand, not increased production.

Loads of on-shore wind is likewise not metered. If you own a hill top farm, especially if you have industrial electricity loads (e.g. milking cows, lighting barns full of hens) it makes loads of sense to buy a modest turbine and install it on a suitable rise, it won't pay for itself over night but it's very competitive with other farm investments and not correlated. If electricity prices go up the turbine is better value, regardless of whether people are paying higher farm gate prices or your yields increased.

I think the estimate is that maybe as much as 5GW of UK wind nameplate capacity is unmetered, so it's a minority of wind power, but it's a big minority.