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The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

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Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#451

Post by HDThoreaun »

user3939382 wrote: post #242
rswail wrote: post #120

Why is anyone surprised that the major/globally operating social media companies have extensive internal systems for controlling the content that appears via their platforms? Irrespective of whether or not you agree with individual decisions, the fact that such systems exist should not be a surprise. These companies operate within legal frameworks across multiple jurisdictions that have endless variations of restrict…

They surreptitiously colluded with congressmen and FBI spooks to suppress political speech before an election. I think you’re missing the bigger story here.

source?

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#452

Post by HDThoreaun »

bavell wrote: post #207
godelski wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is anyone surprised that the major/globally operating social media companies have extensive internal systems for controlling the content that appears via their platforms? No one is. These Twitter Files are just building on a right wing prior of them being shadow banned. But they have yet to demonstrate that right wingers are specifically targeted. They don't show why these accounts got flagged (the crux of the…

If this[0] is accurate, then 99.7% of political contributions made by Twitter employees went to Democrats in 2022. Is it unreasonable to suspect people on the right are targeted more often than the people on the left? Wouldn't that be the default assumption and the opposite position would need evidence to prove otherwise? [0] https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598829996264390656?s=20&...

That tweet is as good as worthless imo. For all we know the entire $167k was from a single executive who had no moderation power.

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#453

Post by rhaksw »

etchalon wrote: post #450
rhaksw wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Platforms say it's for spam [1], which most people interpret to mean bots. I've never seen a platform provide an explanation like the one you give here. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/8k5qh3/if_y...

You can look up the Wikipedia article on the practice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banning It has a fairly rich history, and evolution, as well as counter-measures, and counter-counter-measures and counter-counter-counter-measures.

That article barely scratches the surface of what's going on. Reddit alone has tons of secretive ways to remove or hide content, some of which I list here [1]. Others I mention in my talk [2].

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/reveddit/comments/sxpk15/fyi_my_tho...

[2] https://cantsayanything.win/2022-10-transparent-moderation/

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#454

Post by HDThoreaun »

remarkEon wrote: post #301
dmamills wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's your definition that is misunderstood, not the oxymoron. > Shadow banning, also called stealth banning, hellbanning, ghost banning or comment ghosting, is the practice of blocking or partially blocking a user or the user's content from some areas of an online community in such a way that the ban is not readily apparent to the user https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banning

Okay. I guess I'm saying that I think it's dumb when you don't tell the user that their account is in this state.

That's the whole point though. Otherwise they'll just make a new account.

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#455

Post by HDThoreaun »

user3939382 wrote: post #394
michaelmrose wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mediums which have the most reach have the most reach explicitly because they have less spam porn hate and crazy. If twitter gets more "democratic" more crazy, more hateful, less desirable and less popular shall we suggest the next big platform welcome an equal number of undesirables?

The problem is that for a lot of people “hate and crazy” is a euphemism for “political ideas I disagree with”. This isn’t new or original. Anyone can classify their political opponents as crazy, dumb, misguided, “hateful” is the new one, ignorant, *ist. I think a healthier framing is, people who disagree with me politically have their reasons for doing so and the best for everyone is if we have a dialog.

I think the problem is that you can't accept that twitter users don't want to engage with your bs, and that lead to twitter shadow banning it.

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#456

Post by etchalon »

rhaksw wrote: post #453
etchalon wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can look up the Wikipedia article on the practice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banning It has a fairly rich history, and evolution, as well as counter-measures, and counter-counter-measures and counter-counter-counter-measures.

That article barely scratches the surface of what's going on. Reddit alone has tons of secretive ways to remove or hide content, some of which I list here [1]. Others I mention in my talk [2]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/reveddit/comments/sxpk15/fyi_my_tho... [2] https://cantsayanything.win/2022-10-transparent-moderation/

I'm talking about the origination and evolution of a specific practice, called, specifically, "shadow banning".

Yes, other techniques exist. Sometimes people, being imprecise, ignorant and/or lazy, call those techniques "shadow banning", but that isn't what they are.

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#457

Post by stale2002 »

philjohn wrote: post #423
stale2002 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then the problem is worse than people thought. I am glad that you agree that this is such a huge problem, and it is a good thing that now more people are away of how extensive it is.

Guess what, Hacker News does too. Try working in integrity for a few years, you'll realise why these things are necessary, because people just won't stop being jerks.

Twitter being one of the largest communication platforms in the world is something that I am much more concerned about than a much smaller internet forum.

So my point stands.

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#458

Post by MockObject »

nickthegreek wrote: post #431
oska wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment seems to me to be full of bad faith. > use an actual journalistic process There is a journalistic process being followed - two established journalists have been given comprehensive access to internal files and are documenting what they have found, while putting their discoveries in context. Elon is also promising that these files will be released publicly for other journalists and the interested public t…

>two established journalists have been given comprehensive access to internal files and are documenting what they have found, while putting their discoveries in context. Ahhh yes, posting tweets on Twitter is "putting their discoveries in context". Normally journalists provide context by writing in depth articles after they have formed all their thoughts.... and maybe even have it reviewed by an editor. >And who's sa…

Given Elon's recent behavior, is it reasonable to worry that, after answering in the affirmative, no additional information will be forthcoming? Or is this a bad faith criticism?

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#459

Post by MockObject »

philjohn wrote: post #421
oska wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment seems to me to be full of bad faith. > use an actual journalistic process There is a journalistic process being followed - two established journalists have been given comprehensive access to internal files and are documenting what they have found, while putting their discoveries in context. Elon is also promising that these files will be released publicly for other journalists and the interested public t…

Handpicking journalists, and then laying down requirements for them to follow, vs something like the Panama papers where every news agency was granted access. Those things are not the same.

The only requirement was that the story be broken on Twitter. Hardly the most chafing restriction a journalist has ever been subjected to.

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#460

Post by MockObject »

forgingahead wrote: post #113
chucky123 wrote: post #83

Incredible, how openly twitter gas-lights users when it comes to policy enforcement.

Not to mention the commenters here as well: "There's no evidence people and tweets are being suppressed" "This is old news, nothing new here." Is there a mailing list where these things are coordinated? I remember there was JournoList in the late 2000s, so is there a new one for internet commenters of a certain political persuasion? How do they get the talking points memo?

The same coordination network which was used to agree that the first drop's response had to include "doing PR for the world's richest man", the same phrase magically repeated by a dozen establishment journalists.
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