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The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

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Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#101

Post by kmlx »

veec_cas_tant wrote: post #12

Is this information new (as of #27)? Doesn't every social media platform augment reach for troublemakers? For example, here is Elon's new policy[0]: >New Twitter policy is freedom of speech, but not freedom of reach. >Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted & demonetized, so no ads or other revenue to Twitter. >You won’t find the tweet unless you specifically seek it out, which is no different from rest of Interne…

> Is this information new (as of #27)?

yes, it seems like twitter employees lied when asked directly about shadow banning and other issues.

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#102

Post by anigbrowl »

rhaksw wrote: post #82
anigbrowl wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .win domain lol, you had me going for a moment there.

It's my blog's domain, which I got for $2/year, what's wrong with that? We should turn up our nose at everyone who bought the cheapest domain? Interesting you bring this up though because tweets mentioning .win domains still get shadow removed, even today with the new owner. This Tweet [1] only appears when directly linked. It does not appear beneath its parent [2] for anyone but me. [1] https://twitter.com/rhaksw/st…

That's likely because .win has a terrible reputation due to the number of shitty websites on that TLD. I would personally prefer to spend a few $ more to avoid creating an unnecessary negative impression.

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#103

Post by Jun8 »

afavour wrote: post #68
Jun8 wrote: post #49

There must be a ton of ex (or current) Twitter employees on HN: can one of you verify if the user management tool shown in the photos is an actual thing and provide more information on how it works? As another sibling comment states, other platforms also do similar things. It's easy how such systems get started and evolve. In fact, given the severe downvoting I see on this and similarly polarizing threads on HN, I th…

It is, and none of this is new information, given this article from 2020: https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgxd3d/twitter-insider-acces... A more pressing question, IMO: one of the screenshots shows a “direct messages” button. Does Weiss and/or Taibbi have unrestricted access to read users DMs right now?

The 2020 article that you linked only mentions an internal tool that was used to change email addresses, it does not mention visibility filtering at all, which I believe is the new thing here.

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#104

Post by rhaksw »

belltaco wrote: post #90
rhaksw wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transparently removing content is the normal way to moderate a forum. This research [1] suggests it reduces mod workload because users learn the rules. Discourse doesn't secretly remove content and is popular. It isn't accurate to say secrecy increases site quality. No such qualitative study has been done. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/duwdco/should_mode...

That's talking about article submissions, not comments. Couldn't read the PDF because the link is broken. More than 95% of the time I see a flagged account on HN, they post complete garbage that leads to more flaming replies if not removed promptly. HN has a very limited set of moderators, like one or two, who cannot police every comment 24/7. >Discourse doesn't secretly remove content and is popular. Popular where?…

> That's talking about article submissions, not comments

Shadow moderation was implemented without doing any research. I agree it's about time more studies are done on all types of content and all platforms in order to assess whether or not this functionality furthers the platforms' goals.

> Couldn't read the PDF because the link is broken

Good call. Blog post summarizing [1] and pdf [2]

> Popular where? In corporate and niche business use cases? What are some public Discourses that allow everyone to post?

All of them that don't use the ShadowBan add-on, I guess.

Indeed shadow moderation appears to have made platforms more popular. I won't disagree there. But I also think it's clear it has contributed to echo chambers and increased isolation and tribality.

I think we're reaching a point where the public wants to know what's going on in social media. Its harmful nature is not just driven by preference-driven news feeds, which we already know can be toxic, it's also driven by shadow moderation. That's the other shoe that may be dropping here.

[1] https://medium.com/acm-cscw/does-transparency-in-moderation-...

[2] https://shagunjhaver.com/research/articles/jhaver-2019-trans...

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#105

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

chucky123 wrote: post #83

Incredible, how openly twitter gas-lights users when it comes to policy enforcement.

I mean, that's not news, is it? Virtually every social network does that (even HN shadow bans people). (Not saying it's right, only unsurprising.)

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#107

Post by [deleted] »

afavour wrote: post #68
Jun8 wrote: post #49

There must be a ton of ex (or current) Twitter employees on HN: can one of you verify if the user management tool shown in the photos is an actual thing and provide more information on how it works? As another sibling comment states, other platforms also do similar things. It's easy how such systems get started and evolve. In fact, given the severe downvoting I see on this and similarly polarizing threads on HN, I th…

It is, and none of this is new information, given this article from 2020: https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgxd3d/twitter-insider-acces... A more pressing question, IMO: one of the screenshots shows a “direct messages” button. Does Weiss and/or Taibbi have unrestricted access to read users DMs right now?

[deleted]

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#108

Post by purple_ferret »

Jun8 wrote: post #103
afavour wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, and none of this is new information, given this article from 2020: https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgxd3d/twitter-insider-acces... A more pressing question, IMO: one of the screenshots shows a “direct messages” button. Does Weiss and/or Taibbi have unrestricted access to read users DMs right now?

The 2020 article that you linked only mentions an internal tool that was used to change email addresses, it does not mention visibility filtering at all, which I believe is the new thing here.

The images included have "Trends Blacklist" and "Search Blacklist" tags on accounts which seem to be the 'smoking gun' for Bari Weiss

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#109

Post by threeseed »

adnzzzzZ wrote: post #59
michaelgrosner2 wrote: post #21

"New Twitter policy is freedom of speech, but not freedom of reach. Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted & demonetized, so no ads or other revenue to Twitter. You won’t find the tweet unless you specifically seek it out, which is no different from rest of Internet." How is this any different than Elon's stated goals from 3 weeks ago?

A shadowban has the property that it's hidden from the user. Elon seems to want to make these kinds of actions transparent, like, for instance, deboosted tweets being visible as deboosted by their creator/other users, which is a pretty big difference. This difference is already visible in initial intent: Twitter hid what they were doing https://twitter.com/Twitter/status/1022658436704731136 , while Elon is explicitly…

Problem is that there is a reason shadow bans exist.

It prevents nefarious actors from easily probing the limits of their content moderation processes.

It really is funny how Musk is just taking Twitter back to the start.

Re: The Twitter Files Part 2: Twitter's Secret Blacklists

#110

Post by nathanaldensr »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #105
chucky123 wrote: post #83

Incredible, how openly twitter gas-lights users when it comes to policy enforcement.

I mean, that's not news, is it? Virtually every social network does that (even HN shadow bans people). (Not saying it's right, only unsurprising.)

If you defined "that" in "every social network does that" for HN and the other major social media sites, you'd realize just how different the definitions are. The differences matter.
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