Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work? • Hacker News Board

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#31

Post by DanBC » Sun, Dec 25, 2011, 8:42 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #14

DanBC wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you don't listen / read too carefully you hear the occasional good thing ("There's a bunch of good people in the chain of making a book; let's treat those people well") and you have it delivered with great enthusiasm and vigour, and some people seem to be able to ignore the copious amounts of ahem additional commentary that is delivered.

Dude, your style is somewhat persuasive but it's all rhetorical techniques - you use lots of false assumptions and imply facts that aren't true. This statement here - you're doing it again. But a more concrete example was where you said "funny that the guy does this after making lots of money" - see, it's nasty, it's an assumption that's actually untrue . So, I said that's false. Did you correct it? Nope. You throw o…

> Did you correct it? Nope.

I didn't need to, because you did. I haven't made the same mistake again.

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#32

Post by peterarmstrong » Sun, Dec 25, 2011, 8:49 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #26

phoboslab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a few paragraphs of this blog post, but gave up eventually. I didn't understand what he was trying to say at all. I thought this was because English is not my first language, but after looking at a few other posts in his blog, I'm now convinced it's just bad writing. Everything is horribly out of context. I don't know any of names mentioned. This post - his whole blog really - sounds more like a (badly written…

Didn't realize this one would get so popular. It started with this - http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/an-open-letter-to-simon-and...

Sebastian, I really liked: "The book isn’t right. It’s like, 20% mine, 20% Matthew’s, 10% Jim’s, and 50% corporate clusterfuck."

This was why I'd tried to convince you to use Leanpub :) Obviously your current book is done, but if you do another book I'd encourage you to use the Lean Publishing process of publishing a small in-progress version and iterating in public with feedback from your readers...

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#33

Post by Mz » Sun, Dec 25, 2011, 8:50 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #25

Mz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, Sebastian. I agree with some of your remarks here, with regards to such things being used to dismiss someone. I have a serious medical condition and I am open about that here. I am much more discreet about it at work. I tend to feel like people here (and elsewhere) do not really take me seriously and often kind of pat me on the head with the "gosh, you have a moving/touching personal story -- best of luck to you…

You know, I've been following your comments for years Mz. At first it was damn strange for me how open you were - it was like, doesn't she know you're not supposed to do that ? But over time, it became a breath of fresh air. I love how our generation is opening up and cutting out the idea that we have to be perfect, or at least pretend to be. It's cool seeing professional athletes like Zack Grienke open up about what…

I wish I could help foster two things:

1) That you have a more beautiful life that involves somewhat less suffering than you seem to have (something I am working on and achieving for myself).

2) That you and HN get to a more peaceful place with each other. When I was more of a mess, I really hated how much drama I brought to the communities I participated in.

If there is any way I can help you (or HN) with either of those, please don't hesitate to write me.

Have a wonderful new year Sebastian.

(PS: I don't think we are of the same generation. I am 46. My understanding is you are substantially younger.)

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#34

Post by Turing_Machine » Sun, Dec 25, 2011, 8:53 PM UTC

russell wrote: post #7

Charlie Stross, top SF author and HNer, has a series of articles describing the publishing process: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/04/common-m... . He argues that printing and distributing books is only a small part of the process. A polished book still needs literary agents,editors, proof readers, etc. Recommended for the curious.

Others have pointed out that all of those services can be purchased for a flat rate, i.e. without handing over 90% of the revenue from your book.

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#35

Post by stillhatin » Sun, Dec 25, 2011, 9:06 PM UTC

I think Sebastian really is the next Tim Ferriss, but not at all in a good way. I think he's all talk and almost no results, and he's trying to spin that into a success that then justifies him tooting his own horn as a "strategist" (what the fuck?). All over his blog, all over his comments on HN, he makes himself out to be this amazing business guru, juggling 27 world-changing projects at a time, upending major industries with a stroke of his pen. This is from a comment in this thread:

In the last four weeks, I was able to hire like 30-40 people or so, keep six or so projects running, do a deal with a top hotel chain and top jeweler, put out a book in a week, lead a struggle for reform against traditional publishing, made $38,500, shot a bunch of videos, had a bunch of fun, hired an architect to build an orphanage in Ulaanbaatar, and so on.

I call bullshit on all of it. Well, almost all of it; maybe he had fun. Sebastian is always waving his hands and declaring things like this, but there's just no evidence. None. Zip, zilch. Why doesn't he ever post any proof of his results? Why no links to any of these projects, no naming of the major companies he's helping change? He clearly has no problem with self-promotion, so it's not out of a sense of modesty. Anyone who has ever hired knows that if you managed to hire 30-40 people in a month, you don't have time for anything else. My guess is that he emailed 30-40 people on the internet and maybe hired one or two for some small contract work.

Even in this whole thing with S&S, he seems to miss the possibility that not only might they not really care that they lost him, they might be glad. Maybe they took a hard look at the drivel he was churning out and realized that they were better off with the relationship severed.

Enough talking, Sebastian. Put your head down and fucking build something, then you can write a book in ten or twenty years and tell us about it. We don't need another vapid self-promoter selling books exhorting people to manifest themselves to greatness.

And if I'm way off and you really are what you portray yourself as, post some fucking proof. Don't just give us the old "you're free to believe me or not" bullshit that every scammer says. You want some real personal brand equity? All it takes is some proof of the results you're constantly harping on.

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#36

Post by kghose » Sun, Dec 25, 2011, 9:24 PM UTC

russell wrote: post #7

Charlie Stross, top SF author and HNer, has a series of articles describing the publishing process: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/04/common-m... . He argues that printing and distributing books is only a small part of the process. A polished book still needs literary agents,editors, proof readers, etc. Recommended for the curious.

russel - those articles are informative and entertaining. Thanks for the link.

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#37

Post by mkramlich » Sun, Dec 25, 2011, 9:51 PM UTC

In a world where free blog software and PayPal buttons exist I just don't see the need for drama and hand-wringing over the publishing industry. Write stuff. Put it out there. Charge for it. If its any good it will catch on, enough, eventually, and in proportion to how many people like it. The only bureaucracy or industry inertia or "bad treatment" you potentially expose youself to are the ones you knowingly and voluntarily involve. Get over it, move on and concentrate on writing and delivering.

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#38

Post by lhnz » Sun, Dec 25, 2011, 10:04 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #29

lhnz wrote: post #27

Yes, "the rebellion" against traditional publishing might actually work. But whose rebellion are you actually talking about? Most people that are turning to self-publishing are doing this simply because it is a cheaper way of getting their books out, not as a rebellion at traditional publishers... On the other hand, you've clearly got no choice: few are going to want to publish your work now, so how can what you're d…

> 2. Why are you picking a fight with a far stronger animal than yourself? Be realistic: settle the score and do something of value. You're talking about rational self-interest, I'm talking about forcing an industry that's crucial and operating badly to step their game up. It's not rational self-interested, that's for damn sure. It's a principled stand. (Also, this is just a hobby, I have multiple day jobs.)

> I'm talking about forcing an industry that's crucial and operating badly to step their game up.

No you're not. They're not banging on your door to work with you. They don't care about your business and they certainly won't want to hear your advice. Self-publishing your book is not some big, noble game-changing stand that is going to topple the publishing industry. A disinterested observer might call all of this a tantrum...

It's simply not that easy to get people to "step their game up". It generally requires higher status: a powerful negotiating position, sense of shared purpose or dictatorial leadership over them. You have neither. What you do have is your own time and your own life. Use this wisely: don't waste any of your effort reacting to people in this way. If you truly wish to get them to "step their game up" then create a startup and directly compete with them. Self-publishing will take a while to scale but a startup could act as a catalyst...

Distilled, here's my advice:

When you're angry at people but lack an actionable plan on how to deal with them ignore them. Instead: find what you can control and use it to create value.

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#39

Post by SemanticFog » Sun, Dec 25, 2011, 10:06 PM UTC

acangiano wrote: post #10

SemanticFog wrote: post #3

Is this guy for real? Or does he transcend our limited notions of "reality"?

I'm afraid that in its current incarnation, your comment doesn't amount to much more than an insult towards the author. I would elaborate on what makes this crazy in your opinion, and others may discuss your argument.

This is the tech equivalent of being trapped in a Portlandia skit. You guys are taking his parody seriously...

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#40

Post by bobwebb » Sun, Dec 25, 2011, 10:15 PM UTC

lhnz wrote: post #27

Yes, "the rebellion" against traditional publishing might actually work. But whose rebellion are you actually talking about? Most people that are turning to self-publishing are doing this simply because it is a cheaper way of getting their books out, not as a rebellion at traditional publishers... On the other hand, you've clearly got no choice: few are going to want to publish your work now, so how can what you're d…

1. Honestly, I don't think this article is about presenting an audacious new method of bookselling. It's just a clever-if-it-wasn't-so-obvious way of selling his new book. Which is fine, I suppose, but it doesn't make this article especially informative or interesting. Bit of a shame, really.

2. Good point, It's worth noting that many companies that changed how products were bought and sold (e.g. iTunes, Netflix, Steam) did so by offering a product that was better than what the competition offered, not sticking two fingers up at The Man for its own sake.