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Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

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Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#141

Post by HKH2 »

hotpotamus wrote: post #66
DoreenMichele wrote: post #9

When I was growing up, they counted anyone who got vaccinated against something as a "success." So if 80 percent got vaccinated for X, they bragged about that. These days, we count anyone who didn't get vaccinated as a failure and bellyache about that 20 percent that "won't cooperate" and malign them as problem children who don't have a good reason for their choices. It's a dramatic change in attitude and it's very s…

When I was growing up, you had to get your vaccines to go to school or join the military or participate in many aspects of society and anti-vaxers were seen as a fringe minority.

Yeah, you got immunized.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#142

Post by Kye »

maxerickson wrote: post #118
adamrezich wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in the interest of inclusivity & getting a more complete picture, a followup question: is anyone still continuing to get more "boosters" or whatever? are those still being released? or, if not, at what point did you stop? the second shot? third? fourth? did you ever take/are you still taking one of those non-injectable covid medications? I'm so out of the loop about this stuff because it hasn't affected my life in an…

Uptake of the boosters in the US is low. The one released this fall is targeted more closely at post-Omicron strains (dominant in most of 2022). Something like 15% of the country has gotten it, and only ~1/3 of the more vulnerable older folks. There's studies coming out regularly demonstrating that it is more protective against currently circulating virus than the initial vaccine. Covid deaths are still in the hundre…

A lot of people are holding off until some months after their last covid infection on the advice of medical professionals. Classic case of data being easy to misread even with the best intentions.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#143

Post by TOMDM »

daVe23hu wrote: post #137
TOMDM wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what also causes myocarditis at a far higher rate than the mRNA vaccine? COVID. I haven't seen anything suggesting miscarriages caused by mRNA vaccines, do you have any sources?

https://rumble.com/v1y4u78-foot-long-blood-clots-from-mrna-s... https://rumble.com/v1wpgms-mrna-adverse-reaction-data-suppre... https://rumble.com/v1sm1gq-ed-dowd-sudden-adult-deaths-incre... Case 1:21-cv-00008-MJT Document 65 Filed 08/22/22 Page 1 of 46 PageID #: 1946 Brook Jackson whistle blower case on testing process This is an interesting case as Brook Jackson worked in the drug trial industry many years and wit…

Sure, here are some sources.

Cases of myocarditis after vaccination: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346

Cases of myocarditis after COVID infection: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm

And also, please forgive me for not taking a guy on Rumble seriously. If you have a study, I'm more than happy to engage.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#144

Post by jltsiren »

adamiscool8 wrote: post #120
jltsiren wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reasons why individualism and public health are fundamentally at odds. Ethical questions become easier if you assume that all actions are intentional and made with full knowledge of the consequences. Unfortunately real people are biological organisms that may shed pathogens wherever they go. Your mere presence may be enough to harm other people, without your intention or knowledge. Should we as a s…

I don’t think this is a complex trade-off at all, precisely for the reasons in your second paragraph. The whole issue boils down to whether we should allow the powers that be a framework to criminalize being an unadulterated human. That path may be less salient in the short-term (particularly in the face of manufactured panic), but it’s far, far more terrifying in the long run.

My comment was not specific to covid vaccines.

Vaccines, like other preventative measures, have externalities. Public health debates are often about whether those externalities are significant enough that individuals should be asked / pressured / forced to take actions that may be harmful to them. If you only talk about the effects of a vaccine on the vaccinated individual, you are not really participating in the debate.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#145

Post by epgui »

yucky wrote: post #127
jltsiren wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reasons why individualism and public health are fundamentally at odds. Ethical questions become easier if you assume that all actions are intentional and made with full knowledge of the consequences. Unfortunately real people are biological organisms that may shed pathogens wherever they go. Your mere presence may be enough to harm other people, without your intention or knowledge. Should we as a s…

Everyone I know with the vaccine has still gotten (and presumably spread) COVID. Many of them multiple times. So you can't make this statement anymore, it's false.

That's a nice testimonial, but you do realize that anecdotal evidence is one of the weakest forms of evidence, right?

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#146

Post by daVe23hu »

TOMDM wrote: post #143
daVe23hu wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://rumble.com/v1y4u78-foot-long-blood-clots-from-mrna-s... https://rumble.com/v1wpgms-mrna-adverse-reaction-data-suppre... https://rumble.com/v1sm1gq-ed-dowd-sudden-adult-deaths-incre... Case 1:21-cv-00008-MJT Document 65 Filed 08/22/22 Page 1 of 46 PageID #: 1946 Brook Jackson whistle blower case on testing process This is an interesting case as Brook Jackson worked in the drug trial industry many years and wit…

Sure, here are some sources. Cases of myocarditis after vaccination: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346 Cases of myocarditis after COVID infection: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm And also, please forgive me for not taking a guy on Rumble seriously. If you have a study, I'm more than happy to engage.

Understand re Rumble - please note if these vids were posted on YT they would be banned. If you desire I would suggest you look up the qualifications of said Drs on the Rumbles they are not quacks. Thank you for your references

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#147

Post by maxerickson »

Kye wrote: post #142
maxerickson wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uptake of the boosters in the US is low. The one released this fall is targeted more closely at post-Omicron strains (dominant in most of 2022). Something like 15% of the country has gotten it, and only ~1/3 of the more vulnerable older folks. There's studies coming out regularly demonstrating that it is more protective against currently circulating virus than the initial vaccine. Covid deaths are still in the hundre…

A lot of people are holding off until some months after their last covid infection on the advice of medical professionals. Classic case of data being easy to misread even with the best intentions.

Reported infections per day have been between 50,000 and 100,000 a day for months. If you assume that represents a medium fraction of cases, it accounts for like 20 million people not getting bivalent boosters (100,000 * 3 * 60 = 18,000,000). There's more than 250 million people that haven't gotten the booster.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#148

Post by archagon »

fein wrote: post #77
jfengel wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fact that has essentially nothing to do with the safety or efficacy of the COVID vaccine. There has been a deliberate ideologically-driven campaign to undermine that trust. Ask a COVID anti-vaxxer to explain their position, and it will almost immediately include at least one outright falsehood. Not a "difference of opinion" or "interpretation" or "risk tolerance", but just an outright lie. And correcting that will…

How about "I'm not taking some experimental rushed bullshit by large pharma corps who have a solid track record of doing shady shit"? Because the actual human beings that I talk to face to face have this opinion, and not the crazy 5g nanobots nonsense the social media companies and journalists make sure you see that paints your fellow countrymen in some deranged light.

Is this meant to contradict the OP? I count at least three falsehoods in this sentence alone.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#149

Post by ohCh6zos »

sofixa wrote: post #104
ohCh6zos wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has a vaccine and all the available boosters. They are absolutely maligned and their freedoms were unreasonably restricted.

It was during a pandemic and in many (all?) countries, an active health crisis which resulted in literally millions of dead (what are we at now, 6 million?). All of us had our freedoms restricted at various levels - lockdowns, travel restrictions, work rules, masks, vaccines. Some of us understood the (potential) gravity of the situation and accepted that, knowing nobody was doing it for fun. Others threw fucking tan…

Shame is you might actually get what you are asking for.

Edit: Morally why would someone be obligated to pay attention to the majority? Morality isn't up for mob rule.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#150

Post by anotherevan »

TrevorJ wrote: post #113
jiggawatts wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When someone gets in a horrific crash because the were driving 50 over the speed limit, do you feel sorry for them? Or do you say that they "got what they deserved" not just for being individually reckless, but also for selfishly putting other people on the roads in danger? Ask yourself: Before COVID, in 2019, if you saw an 18 year old's car wrapped around a tree on the news clearly due to excessive speeding, did you…

Your example elides the fact that the vaccine situation was about risk-benefit analysis in many people's minds. A more appropriate example might be a situation where someone ran their car off the road because they perceived (possibly incorrectly) some danger that they were attempting to avoid.

And quite possibly ploughing into a crowd of pedestrians in the process.
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