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There aren't enough remote jobs to go around

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Re: There aren't enough remote jobs to go around

#71
post #24

Companies may ask, but usually people quit and productivity drops. For me return to office would be 60% pay cut. Good luck finding another developer :)

Everyone thinks they're a special snowflake, but the reality is that 75% of devs are easily replaced

Most non-trivial software projects require at least 3 months of onboarding to be fully productive. Hiring takes even in the best of cases about as long.

I would not consider that to be "easily" even for mid-tier devs.

Re: There aren't enough remote jobs to go around

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one cannot tell if someone is being productive remotely, Its hard for me to believe they could actually tell if they were in office. Someone sitting at a desk is not evidence of productivity.

It is not. But you do get some information about a person's work ethic from being in person, than you do being at home: * overhearing organic topics of conversation * walking by their desk and observing random 'snapshots' of tasks * observing general work patterns * observing any red flags of poor work ethic When someone is remote, you have to explicitly work to gather this information (many don't, and simply wait to…

These are by far the most mediocre metric of productivity.

I've worked remote for my entire career. I nap. I work out of my pajamas. I go out on walks to think. And I delivered a solution for a hedge fund client that couldn't for the life of itself find or hire even moderately competent devs to create the solutions myself and my associates built for them.

You're just defending the "adult kindergarten" thesis of employee productivity.

Re: There aren't enough remote jobs to go around

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not guaranteed that it's a sunk cost fallacy. I'm going to make up some dumb numbers: suppose people are 5% more productive in the office, but the office has an amortized cost of 10% total compensation. You shouldn't open an office. But say you've purchased an office outright, and maintenance is now only 2% of the cost of total compensation (8% of cost was paid up front). In that case, you would want people in t…

All the evidence points to workers (especially programmers) being more productive when working from home, not less.

Short term yes, long term unclear. I’ve personally experienced something that could be cranked out in a multi day white boarding session stretch out for months of on/off meetings. It’s harder to collaborate remotely.

Re: There aren't enough remote jobs to go around

#74
What a horrid analysis!

50% of applications were asking for remote work in one of the positions that offered remote work (15% of the total LinkedIn openings). That's a 3:1 applications to jobs ratio.

So what!?

Saying "there aren't enough remote jobs" makes the assumption of a 1:1 match ratio: 1 job opening will be filled by 1 applicant. But that's never true. Forget about the remote jobs. What's the applications to job openings ratio for the ones that do not offer remote work?

Re: There aren't enough remote jobs to go around

#76
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one of these people, that is explicitly why I don't want to work remotely. I don't want to spend my life doing Zoom calls. A quick telephone audio call for 5 minutes along the lines of "hey, are you nearly at the store" - sure. A call to avoid literally flying 5000 miles or something - if we have to. But in general, for actual communication I want to be in the room with someone, and I think that a combination of c…

The standard is 200 sqft of office space per employee (this factors in conference rooms, common space, bathrooms, etc). That means best case, you are looking at approximately 300 people per football field of office space. Colocating functional teams together, and by extension the teams they need to work with, is a great idea but the math just doesn't work out for a company of more than a few hundred employees. At the…

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Re: There aren't enough remote jobs to go around

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. But you do get some information about a person's work ethic from being in person, than you do being at home: * overhearing organic topics of conversation * walking by their desk and observing random 'snapshots' of tasks * observing general work patterns * observing any red flags of poor work ethic When someone is remote, you have to explicitly work to gather this information (many don't, and simply wait to…

These are by far the most mediocre metric of productivity. I've worked remote for my entire career. I nap. I work out of my pajamas. I go out on walks to think. And I delivered a solution for a hedge fund client that couldn't for the life of itself find or hire even moderately competent devs to create the solutions myself and my associates built for them. You're just defending the "adult kindergarten" thesis of emplo…

I absolutely agree with what you're saying. I'm not saying that those things are measures of productivity, or that they're disqualifying. I'm saying, there's part of a holistic understanding of work ethic... (which is a different thing than productivity). If someone is goofing off occasionally, but delivers their work, that's a good thing. Having a healthy amount of goofing off is not only not a problem, it's part of a healthy work environment.

But, over my career I have literally seen egregious instances where someone, habitually, up against a deadline shows up to work late, sits down in their cube, puts on a gaming headset and plays an MMORPG for a few hours, then shows up to the standup and says they need more time to get their work done. These situations are something that even the most Theory Y manager would need to address.

Luckily I now work in workplaces where I have the luxury of hiring people with a track record of success, but in places where many hires might not be aware of commonly accepted workplace expectations, these things do happen. That doesn't mean you should treat everyone like children, as you say, but it does mean you need to be aware of your employee's attitudes and expectations.

Re: There aren't enough remote jobs to go around

#78

This is like saying "There aren't enough high-paying jobs". Remote is one property of a job to select for. You may not value it high enough to compromise on other parameters. Sure, there aren't enough remote jobs for everyone to have one. But everyone doesn't want a remote job, just like everyone wants a high-paying job. (Sure, everyone wants money. But they want to work excessive hours, or work in a field they find…

In my social circle, most of the people complaining about RTO work in big tech. They just want to keep their massive salaries without having to go into the office a set # of times per week. Others just want to GTFO of California but keep the same salary.

There are endless startups that are hiring which are 100% remote, but they aren't handing out 500k comp packages for staff level engineers though. It's a pretty obvious case of wanting your cake and eating it at the same time.

Re: There aren't enough remote jobs to go around

#79
post #40
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a pretty toxic environment. Working with remote employees is no different than working with someone in another office. Consider the pre-pandemic prevalence of "phone booths" and one person conference rooms, so you can be in a meeting as the only local attendee. As far as the other location is considered, you are remote just with access to a bigger coffee maker.

Its toxic to not want to be on zoom or have to book a meeting room to talk? >no different than working with someone in another office Given the choice, they'd likely prefer someone local in this case as well.

> Its toxic to not want to be on zoom or have to book a meeting room to talk?

Refusing to work with people because of their office situation is toxic behavior.

How would the PM who is in remission from cancer or the engineer with a disabled child supposed to feel when someone says that they prefer to not work with them because they need to stay home?

Re: There aren't enough remote jobs to go around

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the evidence points to workers (especially programmers) being more productive when working from home, not less.

Short term yes, long term unclear. I’ve personally experienced something that could be cranked out in a multi day white boarding session stretch out for months of on/off meetings. It’s harder to collaborate remotely.

At that point, have everyone get together for an offsite/onsite.
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