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Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

sebastianmarshall.com

11–20 of 48 posts

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#11

Is this guy for real? Or does he transcend our limited notions of "reality"?

Hi. I'm real. So -

You know how you look back at previous historical eras, and the people had these obviously backwards and stupid views, and how could they possibly not get it?

We live in one of those eras, too.

I try not to. Social decorum? A lot of it's there for good reason. But a lot of it isn't.

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#12
post #8

Is this guy for real? Or does he transcend our limited notions of "reality"?

Sebastian identifies as bipolar (cyclothymic). ( http://www.mind.org.uk/help/diagnoses_and_conditions/bipolar... ) ( http://mentalhealth.gov/health/publications/bipolar-disorder... ) ( http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfo/problems/bipolardi... )

Cyclothymic, sure. Stronger emotions, some crashes. Bipolar? Absolutely not. I keep doing probability, causality, and checking my answers - never been full manic.

(Also, medicalization tends to marginalize people, and is frequently used instead of addressing arguments - "oh he's bipolar, that's why he's doing this - aside from the fact that I'm not, it's sloppy thinking; it's effective rhetorically but indicates weak ethics and minimal regard for truth and accuracy)

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#13
God is just. Highs and lows balance.

----

Looking at his disciples, he said:

   “Blessed are you who are poor, 
   for yours is the kingdom of God. 
    21 Blessed are you who hunger now, 
   for you will be satisfied. 
    Blessed are you who weep now, 
   for you will laugh. 
    22 Blessed are you when people hate you, 
   when they exclude you and insult you 
   and reject your name as evil, 
      because of the Son of Man.

   23 “Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great  is your reward in heaven. For that is how their ancestors treated the prophets. 

   24 “But woe to you who are rich, 
   for you have already received your comfort. 
    25 Woe to you who are well fed now, 
   for you will go hungry. 
    Woe to you who laugh now, 
   for you will mourn and weep. 
    26 Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, 
   for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.
----------

Do shitty stuff long enough, you'll get rewarded.

Alice in Chains has one wise lyric -- no one likes to take the path which brings you lower. I have a hard time not looking at reality as a farce by some patronizing angel and it makes me rage. The Catholic lent practice is just lovely. I'll pass. My life doesn't have big highs and lows--kinda stuck in stable limbo recently.

You can only endure so much of the path that takes you lower. The interesting thing is, when I set-out to take the lower path, it got way way worse than I bargained for. No good deed goes unpunished. There are demon angels who pile on the misery and you say "fuck this! More than I bargained for, shaking a fist at the sky." Those demons live for doing that.

I was terrified for years, but it got better. I have to laugh -- it's not like my fears were logically refuted, no, I just got used to them and forgot them.

I don't know much about Eastern religion, but they probably figure highs and lows balance. God exists, though... Heaven is enjoying His company, I figure. I guess that highs and lows thing still applies. I don't really know how rigid it is. Anyway, rejoice! Talking to God is the meaning of life. As I ponder those Eastern folk, seems very void, their thinking without God. Poor folk.

God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\Brief\AUGUST.TXT

e mutable, but in Him are they firmly stablished; else would they pass, and pass away. In Him then be they beloved; and carry unto Him along with thee what souls thou canst, and say to them, "Him let us love, Him let us love: He made these, nor is He far off. For He did not make them, and so depart, but they are of Him, and in Him. See there He is, where truth is loved. He is within the very heart, yet hath the heart strayed from Him. Go back into your heart, ye transgressors, and cleave fast to

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#14
post #9
post #6

Why does this guy keep getting upvoted on HN?

Because if you don't listen / read too carefully you hear the occasional good thing ("There's a bunch of good people in the chain of making a book; let's treat those people well") and you have it delivered with great enthusiasm and vigour, and some people seem to be able to ignore the copious amounts of ahem additional commentary that is delivered.

Dude, your style is somewhat persuasive but it's all rhetorical techniques - you use lots of false assumptions and imply facts that aren't true.

This statement here - you're doing it again. But a more concrete example was where you said "funny that the guy does this after making lots of money" - see, it's nasty, it's an assumption that's actually untrue.

So, I said that's false. Did you correct it? Nope. You throw out these assumptions when you don't know what you're talking about, and don't own it when you're wrong.

So - cut that out and get an actual discussion going.

Actually go read an article, think about the arguments made, and address the good and bad points.

Start by summarizing an article - "I think the author is saying X." Then, follow up with if you partially agree or disagree. Cut out this assumptive hand-waving rhetoric thing you do.

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sebastian identifies as bipolar (cyclothymic). ( http://www.mind.org.uk/help/diagnoses_and_conditions/bipolar... ) ( http://mentalhealth.gov/health/publications/bipolar-disorder... ) ( http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfo/problems/bipolardi... )

Cyclothymic, sure. Stronger emotions, some crashes. Bipolar? Absolutely not. I keep doing probability, causality, and checking my answers - never been full manic. (Also, medicalization tends to marginalize people, and is frequently used instead of addressing arguments - "oh he's bipolar , that's why he's doing this - aside from the fact that I'm not, it's sloppy thinking; it's effective rhetorically but indicates wea…

As someone who has seen bipolar type 2 first hand, you sound terrifyingly like me. I know that you won't get help right now, but I beg you to do so when you're at the nadir and sinking beneath the waves begins to make sense. Please, please don't let this break you and destroy your life.

It isn't something wrong. It's just the way we were born. Please seek help and learn how to live with this. Please.

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclothymic, sure. Stronger emotions, some crashes. Bipolar? Absolutely not. I keep doing probability, causality, and checking my answers - never been full manic. (Also, medicalization tends to marginalize people, and is frequently used instead of addressing arguments - "oh he's bipolar , that's why he's doing this - aside from the fact that I'm not, it's sloppy thinking; it's effective rhetorically but indicates wea…

As someone who has seen bipolar type 2 first hand, you sound terrifyingly like me. I know that you won't get help right now, but I beg you to do so when you're at the nadir and sinking beneath the waves begins to make sense. Please, please don't let this break you and destroy your life. It isn't something wrong. It's just the way we were born. Please seek help and learn how to live with this. Please.

If you pushed yourself onto the normal path and that makes you happy and keeps you engaged, great.

I made a different choice with different outcomes. In the last four weeks, I was able to hire like 30-40 people or so, keep six or so projects running, do a deal with a top hotel chain and top jeweler, put out a book in a week, lead a struggle for reform against traditional publishing, made $38,500, shot a bunch of videos, had a bunch of fun, hired an architect to build an orphanage in Ulaanbaatar, and so on.

Normal life? It's not for me. I'll take the good with the bad, burn hotter than the sun, and burn out and go mad at a relatively young age. It's a lifestyle choice, and I'm doing it an educated fashion. I wouldn't wish it on anyone else, I don't advocate it, but I wouldn't give it up for anything.

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#17
post #6

Why does this guy keep getting upvoted on HN?

There is much to be said about name recognition. He's been an active community member for a few years and I think people are interested in watching him rationally go irrational.

I've read his blog for awhile now and he paints an interesting portrait of himself. At the same time that he is rallying for the human condition and trying to get people to stand up, he talks of taking over the world and compares himself to dictators. He gave himself the diagnosis of a type of mania, but hasn't really sought treatment for it or even a valid diagnosis. In the past few months his writing has become more and more unstable.

And that intrigues me. Whenever I become unstable in any way, my writing tends to dry up. I retreat within myself to find inner stability. I do things to excess, cut ties, etc. etc. If I extrapolate my behavior over to him (WARNING: dangerous assumption here), then it seems like he is becoming more stable mentally. He is writing on more focused topics, connecting with more people, trying to do better work, being more public about what he is doing.

Maybe he has come to accept the idea of a public failure not meaning much to him and is just putting it out there. Maybe he is becoming more accustomed to the idea that he might just be unstable mentally and can therefore let it shine through.The change in writing topics and styles obviously reflects a change in Sebastian.

Does it reflect a change in how he writes or a change in how he thinks though? Most people here are pointing and yelling "Train Wreck! Watch out!" and worrying that he has changed for the worse mentally. But if you read his stuff, he refers to earlier dark periods in his life. He's stared into bays and thought of drowning as being a better outcome for his life. He sounds like he lost a business at some point in his early 20's or it failed or something just didn't work.

So I don't really think that he has changed mentally. All this was there and has been there since he started writing. To me, it just seems like he is saying "Fuck this, I am going to write about what I really think about." It's more of a change in his style of writing, the relative truth he is willing to let out, than, "Oh shit, finna be a crazy mofo from now on."

Or he could just be going crazy. Or both. Perspective from a casual observer here.

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#18
post #7

Charlie Stross, top SF author and HNer, has a series of articles describing the publishing process: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/04/common-m... . He argues that printing and distributing books is only a small part of the process. A polished book still needs literary agents,editors, proof readers, etc. Recommended for the curious.

I 100% agree and have massive respect for everyone involved in the publishing process - except the lawyers, bureaucrats, and suits who are screwing it up for everyone.

Artists, editors, copy-editors, distributors, and so on all have immense value. So do ethical agents. But the industry badly needs reform and modernization.

Re: Could The Rebellion Against Traditional Publishing Actually Work?

#20
I read about 50% of the letter (http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/an-open-letter-to-simon-and...)

What I felt was unprofessional behavior on the part of the publisher was not sticking to deadlines for payment.

However, I did feel that the author complaining his ideas for jacket design were not taken seriously is a bit diva-like behavior.

I do think, that with all the software tools we have out (spell checker, grammar checkers etc) it should be quite possible to self-publish (using a print on demand service for example, and for ebooks, perhaps you can even design your own site).

The only thing I think is how will your book get publicity if you don't have a publisher behind you. Perhaps Cory Doctorow's model (of putting samples on line) is good, but how do you get your initial break?

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