Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're just looking to pimp your terminal and sand off some of the edges, fish is a great shell replacement to try: https://github.com/fish-shell/fish-shell A lot of Mac users either don't know they're using zsh by default now or simply don't take advantage of it's scripting language/featureset. For those people, I think fish makes a compelling upgrade. No log-in, just a slightly nicer interactive terminal prompt.
As someone who previously used a very customized zsh, switching to fish was great: reliable, fast, low config, etc
Telemetry is now optional in Warp
31–40 of 72 posts
Re: Telemetry is now optional in Warp
#32Re: Telemetry is now optional in Warp
#33I don't think something as fundamental a developer tool as a Terminal makes sense as a proprietary software. That doesn't mean nobody will use it, obviously, but it does mean that you guys are sacrificing a lot of potential users for...I have actually no idea why Warp isn't open source. What's the issue? What are you afraid of?
Re: Telemetry is now optional in Warp
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Scrolling through their website it looks like they are offering an enterprise terminal that's not meant for personal use.
Same thing with the underlying business case for Intel/AMD's ME/PSP backdoors, and locked down computing in general. Yet we all now have to suffer their existence on every performant CPU made in the past decade. If software developers had a professional oath to do no harm akin to doctors, creating such systems would be professional malpractice. Some lines just shouldn't be crossed.
akin to engineers as well.
Re: Telemetry is now optional in Warp
#35> At this time, Warp continues to require login. I don't want to stoke the flames again, but even VS Code doesn't force you to log-in. Microsoft knows that blocking you from using basic functionality of a free app is a bad user experience. It's good that you're letting people opt-in to a more private experience, but that was hardly the largest problem I could see the last time this was brought up. From where I'm stan…
I agree, this is fruit fly startup which will eventually fail. I can’t believe anyone could think this would be successful. It might do something interesting before it dies, though.
Re: Telemetry is now optional in Warp
#36I've been using this for a while and I like I can use my mouse to move the cursor and make selections. Is there an equivalent open source option?
Re: Telemetry is now optional in Warp
#37My current terminals, iTerm2, xfce4-terminal, and Alacritty, don’t have telemetry. What am I missing out on here?
Business model: Juicero for bash.
> Juicero was an American company that designed and manufactured the Juicero Press, a fruit and vegetable juicer. The Juicero Press was a Wi-Fi connected juicer that used proprietary, single-serving packets of pre-chopped fruits and vegetables that were sold exclusively by the company by subscription. From 2014 to 2017, the San Francisco-based firm received $120 million in startup venture capital from investors.[1]
> The company attracted significant negative media attention when consumers and journalists discovered that its juice packets could be squeezed just as easily by hand as by the company's expensive machine. On September 1, 2017, the company announced that it was suspending sales of the juicer and the packets, repurchasing the juicer from its customers and searching for a buyer for the company and its intellectual property.[2][3] After its collapse, the company was described in the press as a symbol of a dysfunctional Silicon Valley culture. The Guardian wrote that Juicero was an example of "the absurd Silicon Valley startup industry that raises huge sums of money for solutions to non-problems."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicero
I laugh, but at the same time, I have a Nespresso machine.
Conclusion: Subscriptions work better if you sell drugs.
Re: Telemetry is now optional in Warp
#38My current terminals, iTerm2, xfce4-terminal, and Alacritty, don’t have telemetry. What am I missing out on here?
Seriously, what the actual fuck? Have enough developers really been conditioned to accept surveillance and pervasive centralized control that someone thought this was a good idea? The fact that the telemetry code even exists is a problem - both in case of a bug that turns it on, and what it says about the proclivities of its developers. It's utterly inappropriate to refer to this as "the Rust-based terminal", as if t…
Easily share out custom workflows to fetch development keys and login to different services. Onboarding scripts that setup all the terminal things needed for development environment.
> "the obscene SaaSification of a basic foundational utility"
Watching their demo vid, it is a very nice terminal that also supports org wide shared scripts, in a unified manner with autocomplete.
Right now I have a text file with commands that I copy and paste daily to get things done. I share bits and pieces of this file with new hires when they onboard to solve various common problems. This shell solves that problem for an entire organization, and it does so in a discoverable way.
Can an org have their own repo of shell scripts? Sure, but then you have to make sure all developers in the org pull the latest when changes happen, and discoverability within "folder full of scripts" isn't the best.
> The fact that the telemetry code even exists is a problem - both in case of a bug that turns it on, and what it says about the proclivities of its developers.
Telemetry exists because running user studies is expensive. "What features are people using, what is crashing, where are people getting frustrated".
Re: Telemetry is now optional in Warp
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Scrolling through their website it looks like they are offering an enterprise terminal that's not meant for personal use.
Same thing with the underlying business case for Intel/AMD's ME/PSP backdoors, and locked down computing in general. Yet we all now have to suffer their existence on every performant CPU made in the past decade. If software developers had a professional oath to do no harm akin to doctors, creating such systems would be professional malpractice. Some lines just shouldn't be crossed.
Weapons need software, too.
Re: Telemetry is now optional in Warp
#40Honestly been a Mac user since I could be defined as a user and I'm still yet to install iTerm over Terminal.app, so I'm curious: who is this for, really?
I mean, it's ok? But I rarely feel like opening it.
Small things don't work for some reason. Like alt-clicking in nano doesn't move the mouse like it does in basic old Terminal.
And the tab completion is really aggravating for me. There's like 3 different actions it takes almost randomly that make zero sense, for example in a window I had open:
- If I type "na" and press tab it shows me a popup window with suggestions.
- If I type "nano", it shows the entire command I wanted to run based on history "nano test.log"... but pressing tab does nothing. You're supposed to know to switch to the right arrow.
- If I type "nano test.lo" there's only one possible completion and now tab does work like the right arrow
- But hold on! If got a selection window in an earlier step, and I decide to type to narrow down the selection so there's only one option left... tab doesn't work like the right arrow and will instead stupidly try to cycle the selection window even though only one option shown is still valid.
It's like the selection window ignores everything you typed after it opened, which plain old zsh solved, but they somehow unsolved
Have also had it break for me once and I'm not clear on how to reproduce, it involved SSH but somehow the order of "blocks" for commands went out of whack, so there was a block stuck underneath the "bottom" where I'm supposed to type, and it'd steal input from the prompt.
And there's this really minor but annoying thing where if you try and select some text then right click to copy, the entire command block gets highlighted, even though in order to select a piece of text you had to intentionally click twice to unhighlight the command block.
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Having little moments like that just introduce enough aggravation that I don't want to bother.
To me iTerm is a happy middle ground. It's barely any different from Terminal, but on the few occasions where it adds some value (like being able to view a high quality image preview in your terminal, or share commands between SSH sessions) its completely unintrusive, the opposite of what Warp seems to be aiming for.
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Also, semi-off topic, but after using it I get seriously stressed out about the fact that companies like this are hiring people who need to make a living.
There's no reality in which this actually becomes something to justify taking in tens of millions of dollars in funding, which are probably expecting 100s of millions in returns. Clearly their plan is that some companies will end up having this be the go-to tool for developers, but the most "hardcore" developers are the ones who would be most repulsed by this.
The more casual developers work at places that see developers as a cost center and will never spend real money on a terminal when they're barely ok with paying for a Keurig.
I imagine that the founder and maybe the core team know they can get cushy jobs with their technical skills and resumes so it doesn't bother them, but the problem is these things tend to scale up before falling apart.
Eventually they start to pull in people who don't have those kinds of luxuries just to function. People who didn't go to some top school or have a string of in-demand logos on their resume might not have what it takes to weather this all falling apart like they do.
Like yes, startups are inherently very risky, but again, the further away from the core team you get, the higher the headcount they have to show before hiring people, the longer they've been around, they'll start to attract people who can't reasonably be expected to think they're being hired onto the Titanic as it leaves port.