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Fermilab/CERN recommendation for Linux distribution

news.fnal.gov

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Re: Fermilab/CERN recommendation for Linux distribution

#121

Post by rascul »

KronisLV wrote: post #75
flumpcakes wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu was/is by far the more popular distro to use outside of the corporate world. There's a lot more blogs, container base images, tutorials out there because it was popular for tinkerers. This is also the reason it has now become popular inside the corporate world. You may find it harder to find resources for AlmaLinux/CentOS/etc. if you are using the same methods for searching for resources as you would for a Ubu…

> You may find it harder to find resources for AlmaLinux/CentOS/etc. if you are using the same methods for searching for resources as you would for a Ubuntu (or even Debian) based OS. Not only that, but as soon as you venture outside of the "happy path", you'll run into difficulties if others haven't also solved those problems ahead of time, which can be the case with many DEB distros but isn't always so with RPM one…

It seems like you might be conflating RPM distros with RHEL and it's clones, which seems to me a somewhat common thing to do. Suse distros are independent of Red Hat and have a different set of pros and cons, but I don't recall seeing or experiencing the ones you mention about docker or kswapd.

Re: Fermilab/CERN recommendation for Linux distribution

#123

Post by e40 »

jl6 wrote: post #56

I’m out of the loop on RHEL forks. Can someone explain why it is important to be binary compatible with RHEL? Is there a lot of software whose binaries will only run on RHEL? Or is this more a case of wanting something free that can still make use of RHEL-specific skills and knowledge?

I think the replies to you missed the main point: standing on the shoulders of giants. RH has a LOT of resources and being a fork of it means you get all that person power for free.

Re: Fermilab/CERN recommendation for Linux distribution

#124

Post by KronisLV »

rascul wrote: post #121
KronisLV wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You may find it harder to find resources for AlmaLinux/CentOS/etc. if you are using the same methods for searching for resources as you would for a Ubuntu (or even Debian) based OS. Not only that, but as soon as you venture outside of the "happy path", you'll run into difficulties if others haven't also solved those problems ahead of time, which can be the case with many DEB distros but isn't always so with RPM one…

It seems like you might be conflating RPM distros with RHEL and it's clones, which seems to me a somewhat common thing to do. Suse distros are independent of Red Hat and have a different set of pros and cons, but I don't recall seeing or experiencing the ones you mention about docker or kswapd.

I'm yet to see anyone using SUSE or openSUSE (might be a regional thing), though I've heard good things about them! Thanks for pointing out that detail!

Re: Fermilab/CERN recommendation for Linux distribution

#125

Post by jl6 »

mistrial9 wrote: post #106
jl6 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve worked at orgs where the problem with freeware wasn’t the lack of cost, but the lack of support/indemnity/assurance and the lack of a contract to establish a legal framework for the dependency.

ok- so if I understand those terms, roughly(?): support --> contact system for humans to reach other humans with bugs or questions indemnity --> a legal statement by the vendor that the client is not responsible for long term liability for patents or legal challenges assurance --> a legal statement that the vendor will take responsibility if the product is not what it appears to be, or is missing parts that are requi…

Spot on. The kind of features that accountable execs care a lot about. The engineer’s conception of companies like IBM and SAP and Oracle is that they sell terrible clunky software, but a substantial part of the value comes in the CYA that the above brings. The users are rarely the real customer.

Re: Fermilab/CERN recommendation for Linux distribution

#126

Post by CaliforniaKarl »

jl6 wrote: post #125
mistrial9 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok- so if I understand those terms, roughly(?): support --> contact system for humans to reach other humans with bugs or questions indemnity --> a legal statement by the vendor that the client is not responsible for long term liability for patents or legal challenges assurance --> a legal statement that the vendor will take responsibility if the product is not what it appears to be, or is missing parts that are requi…

Spot on. The kind of features that accountable execs care a lot about. The engineer’s conception of companies like IBM and SAP and Oracle is that they sell terrible clunky software, but a substantial part of the value comes in the CYA that the above brings. The users are rarely the real customer.

For a concrete example, have a look at SQLite. SQLite is Public Domain, but it's used virtually everywhere, from phones to airplanes (https://www.sqlite.org/famous.html).

Not all companies are going to trust that something is actually public domain. So, you can get a "Warranty of Title" for SQLite. See https://sqlite.org/copyright.html

And those companies might not be satisfied with "community support". So, you can get paid support for SQLite. See https://sqlite.org/prosupport.html

Re: Fermilab/CERN recommendation for Linux distribution

#127

Post by jacooper »

vbezhenar wrote: post #81
jacooper wrote: post #73

And after all of that, dnf auto update still doesn't support auto restarts for kernel updates, amazing. Also no in-place upgrades since for ever.

I'm afraid to even update ordinary packages on a running system. People who want to update kernel on the fly are just reckless!

Since everything is already running as a container, it really doesn't matter

Re: Fermilab/CERN recommendation for Linux distribution

#128

Post by jonathanspw »

bclemens wrote: post #50
rurban wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have insights. Alma is done by professionals for professionals (the hosting industry). Those guys were behind CentOS, and are running 70% of the internet. Rocky is an unpaid community effort.

No. Alma Linux is done by CloudLinux, and still uses their infrastructure, secure boot certificate, etc (according to their page at https://web.archive.org/web/20221208102246/https://wiki.alma... ). They have never had anything to do with CentOS. Rocky Linux _is_ community oriented, and _is not_ beholden to a specific company, but it is not necessarily unpaid. The majority of the most active contributors to the proje…

Most services are NOT on CL infra. There are a few minor things that need to be moved but all the core stuff is hosted on Alma's own infra including the build system/servers.

Source: I'm the infra lead at Alma.

Re: Fermilab/CERN recommendation for Linux distribution

#129

Post by jonathanspw »

bclemens wrote: post #52
xorcist wrote: post #45

Alma produces a rather snazzy script to migrate from CentOS which works really well. I'm told it also works with Rocky, but I haven't tried it.

Rocky Linux has migration scripts available at https://github.com/rocky-linux/rocky-tools/tree/main/migrate... An easy shortcut though, in case you have to hand type it out somewhere, is https://rockylinux.org/migrate2rocky.sh

Pretty sure he was talking about ELevate to go from EL7 to Alma 8.

Re: Fermilab/CERN recommendation for Linux distribution

#130

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

GrinningFool wrote: post #117
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #65

I would prefer to use RedHat based distros but their lack of official non free repos annoy me - I don’t want to add a community repo, I want packages maintained by trusted core engineers. Sure the community repos probably have that, but I last I checked I couldn’t find any assurance on the security of the community repos. SBOMs don’t mean shit if you’re installing stuff from random no-assurance locations.

Aren't those assurances what you get by paying red hat?

No, paying RedHat gets you support, not an official proprietary blob repo
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