Live data from Hacker News

The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

aps.org

51–60 of 150 posts

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#51

Let's have some fun. Here's a basic special relativity problem from John R. Taylor's Classical Mechanics . A space explorer A sets off at a steady 0.95 c to a distant star. After exploring the star for a short time, he returns at the same speed and gets home after a total absence of 80 years (as measured by earth-bound observers.) How long do A's clocks say that he was gone, and by how much has he aged as compared to…

ChatGPT says:

The time dilation formula tells us that the time experienced by a moving clock will appear slower to a stationary observer by a factor of $\gamma$, where $\gamma = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1 - v^2/c^2}}$ and $v$ is the speed of the moving clock and $c$ is the speed of light. In this case, the speed of the space explorer's rocket is 0.95c, so $\gamma = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1 - 0.95^2}} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{0.0025}} \approx 7.071$.

To determine how long the space explorer's clocks say that he was gone, we need to apply the time dilation formula to each half of the journey. Since the speed of the rocket is the same on the way out as it is on the way back, the value of $\gamma$ will be the same in both cases.

First, let's consider the outbound leg of the journey. From the perspective of an observer on Earth, this journey takes 40 years. However, from the perspective of the space explorer, the time experienced on the outbound leg of the journey will be slower by a factor of $\gamma$, so the time experienced by the space explorer on this leg of the journey will be 40 years / $\gamma$ = $\frac{40}{7.071} \approx 5.648$ years.

Now let's consider the inbound leg of the journey. From the perspective of an observer on Earth, this journey also takes 40 years. However, from the perspective of the space explorer, the time experienced on the inbound leg of the journey will also be slower by a factor of $\gamma$, so the time experienced by the space explorer on this leg of the journey will be 40 years / $\gamma$ = $\frac{40}{7.071} \approx 5.648$ years.

To determine the total time experienced by the space explorer, we need to add the time experienced on the outbound leg of the journey to the time experienced on the inbound leg of the journey. This gives us a total time experienced by the space explorer of 5.648 years + 5.648 years = 11.296 years.

To determine the difference in aging between the space explorer and their twin who stayed on Earth, we need to multiply the time experienced by the space explorer by $\gamma$. This gives us a difference in aging of 11.296 years * $\gamma$ = 11.296 years * 7.071 = 79.8 years. This means that the space explorer has aged 79.8 years less than their twin who stayed on Earth.

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#52

I use to frequent a grad student bar that regularly held an open-mic night for people to practice their defense. It was brutal. A room full of drunk grad and post-grads would try and pick apart your presentation. Targeted academic heckling. It was great. The goal was to get over your fear of the whole process -no matter what, your actual defense would be a better experience.

gosh that sounds like fun, what school was this for? where was it?

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#53
Reminds me of who were on Fourier’s doctoral defense committee: Lagrange, Laplace, and Legendre, who all have a “list of things named after” page on Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_Jos...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_Pie...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_Adr...

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#56
post #4

TIL that a brilliant physicist nearly failed his physics exam (sort of). What is revealing is the broad-based knowledge that was expected of any student of those times. Unlike the super-specialities of today. A career in such fields (rather in any field) in those days required total dedication to academics. Also the importance of oral arguments and oral debate.

There are plenty of petty turds in academia today who do similar things, ruining the careers and significantly negatively impacting the lives of students. When they decide that they do not like a student (for _any_ reason), they have unchecked means to make that student's life miserable, make them jump through extra hoops, get them removed from the program, psychologically torment them, etc.

I don't understand why this is the strongly held narrative here.

Those are some pretty major misses for a PhD candidate physicist. He would have been forwarded of this since he was forced to take one of the exam panels courses!

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#57
Cool story. The most important aspect of it, in my view, is that the problem of 'deriving the resolving power of an optical system' is a very interesting one that inspired Heisenberg and Bohr! I speculate that the way Wien taught it was by rote, and not fully understood, even by Wien.

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#58
>>> he still had difficulty with it! And again, when Bohr pointed out the error, it led to emotional difficulties for Heisenberg.

This resonates with me deeply - knowledge that I "should" have known but are shamed for not knowing become massively harder to learn. I think I somehow label that area as "not part of my identity" and so if I need to learn it Indont have an intellectual challenge I have to resolve past trauma and adjust my view of myself. And accept past failings

It's easier now but I see this in kids learning maths or in my own money management etc.

We need to be kinder to ourselves.

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#59
post #2

> In his laboratory work Heisenberg had to use a Fabry-Perot interferometer, a device for observing the interference of light waves, on which Wien had lectured extensively. But Heisenberg had no idea how to derive the resolving power of the interferometer nor, to Wien's surprise, could he derive the resolving power of such common instruments as the telescope and the microscope. When an angry Wien asked how a storage…

I'm not convinced people fail PhD viva all the time.

It's only a real fail if they tell you to give up

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#60
Having just finished the epic Making of the Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes, my mind goes to a different place —- Heisenberg was at the core of the German bomb project. Speculatively, I wonder how things might have gone a different way had he been required to be a brilliant experimentalist too. Success versus failure hinged on nitty-gritty experimental details, not on sweeping theoretical insight.

Probably not, but then again — Germany is where fission was discovered and an also a powerhouse of chemical engineering. Not all of German science fled the nazis.

Post reply on HN