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The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

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Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#11

"oral exam" sounds funny. I can't help but imagine a person (whom I visualize as Bryan Cranston for obvious reason) examining someone with their mouth or having their mouth examined :-]

Hes correct. It should be "verbal exam".

In fact, though, it's "oral exam." But it does sound funny.

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#12
post #4

TIL that a brilliant physicist nearly failed his physics exam (sort of). What is revealing is the broad-based knowledge that was expected of any student of those times. Unlike the super-specialities of today. A career in such fields (rather in any field) in those days required total dedication to academics. Also the importance of oral arguments and oral debate.

Broad? Limited to the fields of the professors, like today. The story talks about the FPI, and an extensive lecture by one of the examiners about this topic. Like today, expect professors to ask about their favorite topics. The FPI seems suitable for a 1st year physics course today, if not even at school. That example shows how one-sided his interests were, not how much of everything was expected.

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#13
post #4

TIL that a brilliant physicist nearly failed his physics exam (sort of). What is revealing is the broad-based knowledge that was expected of any student of those times. Unlike the super-specialities of today. A career in such fields (rather in any field) in those days required total dedication to academics. Also the importance of oral arguments and oral debate.

There are plenty of petty turds in academia today who do similar things, ruining the careers and significantly negatively impacting the lives of students. When they decide that they do not like a student (for _any_ reason), they have unchecked means to make that student's life miserable, make them jump through extra hoops, get them removed from the program, psychologically torment them, etc.

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#14

"oral exam" sounds funny. I can't help but imagine a person (whom I visualize as Bryan Cranston for obvious reason) examining someone with their mouth or having their mouth examined :-]

It's how it's described in the UK system, so you get people taking their "French orals" which always sounded funny to me.

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#15
A Turing Award winner (keeping it anonymous) related a similar story to me about his phd qualifier exam (when I was taking mine). This winner is a theoretical computer scientist who skipped most of his computer hardware courses. Near the time of his graduation, he was informed that he needed to pass a hardware course because it was required for graduation.

He worried; his advisor begged the hw professor to give him an oral exam in place, because he was a promising candidate with a faculty job already lined up and incredible published results.

Unlike Wein, the hw professor was happy to oblige and created a basic oral exam, suspecting that the student was destined for greatness.

The student desperately tried to cram the hw textbook, but his heart was simply not into the subject. He did however, get the main point of the entire field.

This is when the funny part of the story begins. If you know this person, you know that he is remarkably clever, charming and convincing. He tells me that the hw professor had prepared a small number of questions, all beginning with something like, "explain how a XXX works in a YYY architecture", and that he really didn't know any details of XXX.

He started by copying a basic diagram of a processor onto the board. He kept his answers short, he began each with quizzical look indicating that the question was obvious, and all answers included a remark along the lines of "Obviously, its for performance!" In some cases, while facing the professor, he would point backwards to a spot between components in the diagram. He would slowly move his finger to different areas based on the look on the professor's face.

The hw professor was amused and obviously passed the candidate!

TLDR: don't let classes get in the way of your education.

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#16

"oral exam" sounds funny. I can't help but imagine a person (whom I visualize as Bryan Cranston for obvious reason) examining someone with their mouth or having their mouth examined :-]

Hes correct. It should be "verbal exam".

No, oral is more clear. We also say something is an oral tradition not a verbal tradition because one of the definitions of oral is “Spoken rather than written.”

One of the mean songs for Verbal is “Of, relating to, or associated with words.” So a written test could be a verbal test.

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#17
post #4

TIL that a brilliant physicist nearly failed his physics exam (sort of). What is revealing is the broad-based knowledge that was expected of any student of those times. Unlike the super-specialities of today. A career in such fields (rather in any field) in those days required total dedication to academics. Also the importance of oral arguments and oral debate.

To become a PhD candidate at a non-top-tier Physics university, I had to derive similar trivia over a wide variety of physics topics in a sort of entry exam. I think it is quite normal. What I doubt is typical anymore is for this to be individual and oral. Also, it was quite typical to fail on your first few go rounds.

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s true of any profession. Most people only learn the exact skills they need for their very specific job. If you ask them about anything slightly out of the way they won’t know. (Some people are exceptions of course) I think it’s one of the downsides of economic specialization. Although the upsides probably outweigh it substantially.

I don't think Heisenberg was necessarily a narrow specialist, trained for just one job. He was one of the inventors of a whole new theory of mechanics.

Why would that imply he wasn't a narrow specialist?

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#19

"oral exam" sounds funny. I can't help but imagine a person (whom I visualize as Bryan Cranston for obvious reason) examining someone with their mouth or having their mouth examined :-]

Hes correct. It should be "verbal exam".

“verbal” can be applied to either spoken or written word, but I get the sense that people default to “verbal” over “oral” just out of discomfort.

Re: The sad story of Heisenberg's doctoral oral exam (1998)

#20
Let's have some fun. Here's a basic special relativity problem from John R. Taylor's Classical Mechanics.

A space explorer A sets off at a steady 0.95c to a distant star. After exploring the star for a short time, he returns at the same speed and gets home after a total absence of 80 years (as measured by earth-bound observers.) How long do A's clocks say that he was gone, and by how much has he aged as compared to his twin B who stayed behind on earth? [Note: This is the famous "twin paradox." It is fairly easy to get the right answer by judicious insertion of a factor of γ in the right place, but to understand it, you need to recognize that it involves three inertial frames: the earth-bound frame S, the frame S' of the outbound rocket, and the frame S'' of the returning rocket. Write down the time dilation formula for the two halves of the journey and then add. Notice that the experiment is not symmetrical between the two twins: B stays at rest in the single inertial frame S, but A occupies at least two different frames. This is what allows the result to be unsymmetrical.]

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