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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

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411–420 of 420 posts

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article references another article about SLS in toothpaste (unfortunately not accessible without paying) - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00016357.2019.1... Just seeing that makes me want to switch toothpaste. There looks to be an 'Oral B Toothpaste Pure' that doesn't have SLS or colourants, might give that a go.

Do you happen to know of somewhere in the US that sells that 'Oral B Toothpaste Pure'? Everywhere I can find that sells seems to be in Europe or Australia which I assume would mean paying a stupid amount in shipping fees.

It might have just been an Australian market thing? Unfortunately after I posted, when I went to try and order it from Chemist Warehouse (big chain here) it was out of stock, and lots of other places have it on their sites but out of stock too. So it seems to be discontinued even though Oral B still list it on their Australian site...

I’m trying a SLS-free toothpaste now from a local company (again Australian) called Grant’s, but they only have one with fluoride, which has a bit of an intense flavour. But it’s OK. They do seem to have a US distributor but I don’t know if it’s available anywhere over there. Sensodyne as the other commenter mentioned does have SLS free toothpastes but I wanted to avoid some of the other things in it (not that there’s strong evidence against their use, but one ingredient, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, is just a potential irritant, I wanted to avoid the sweetness, and the EU has stopped allowing titanium dioxide in food).

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#412
post #326
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a similar tale to tell. Ever since I've taken activated charcoal regularly, I have felt considerable improvement in my digestion and overall well-being. I feel happier, even. The charcoal is "sourced from non-GMO coconuts" which I don't necessarily believe but I take it as a sign that it's a higher quality product instead of repackaged industrial waste (like a lot of the market probably is). I take 1000mg of a…

Not directly related to the food products as your refer to them, but a couple of years ago there was the big Cradle-to-Cradle "Waste is Food" hype. Loved by many companies and governments. As a result in The Netherlands this whole paper bureaucracy appeared where through all kinds of tricks you can transform almost any waste back into 'building materials' that are good for the market again. In many cases waste proces…

Literally "spread out over the lands"...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/19/us-state...

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#413
post #78

I suffered from chronic diarrhea for years which I attributed to Crohn's disease. This seemed obvious since diarrhea is a very common symptom of Crohn's, but its onset had been several years after I was diagnosed and prior to that I had tended more towards the opposite problem (constipation). I was thus always suspicious that the root cause lay elsewhere. After much experimenting I found that if I ran my dishwasher t…

I worked in an office where I eventually realized I got annoying to bad GI problems whenever I drank the water (won't describe in detail but very atypical and I at first wondered why it only happened when I was in the office), and someone else there once mentioned they had the same problem. I always used the office-services provided glasses to drink out of, and reading this it seems very likely it could have been res…

True story... Years ago, my friend (let's call her "Alice") and I put it together that whenever we went over to "Bob's" house for dinner we both got the runs. Finally, one of us mentioned it to Bob and he immediately blamed his wife: "I've told her," he said, "sometimes she doesn't wash the soap off the plates well enough." Something like that had never occurred to me. Sheer speculation, but it made some sense, as the dinners themselves were fairly basic.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sick? No? Then what is the issue here?

Are organisms other than the individual in question attempting to survive unscathed where SLS exists in the water which goes down the drain and gutters and ultimately into watersheds? Your inability to recognize the issue upon narrowly imagining an individual human as the only potential victim does not eliminate it's deleterious effect on biomes and, by extension, humanity. Your invalidation is, itself, invalid. I ho…

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Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#415
For the one looking for a low-tech alternative to rinse aids: white vinegar does wonders. You can easily get it food grade as it is used to make preserves. Similarly it can be used as a softener for washing clothes. The cherry on top: it's cheap!

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#416
When my HSV symptoms started, I thought I had a yeast infection. The following day, I had a swollen lymph node in my neck behind my ear. A couple days later, I felt stinging on my labia while showering, which I attributed to ingrown hairs. Later, I noticed bleeding and small ulcers. They began with dull pain and tingling, then my entire genital area was swollen and red. I’ve had an outbreak every month like clockwork dealing with the pain, itching and blisters i got tired of antiviral drugs and decided to try herbal medicine, i found Dr. Bulukona Website: bulukonaherbaltemple.wixsite.com/bulukona-temple and i discovered he was a professional in herbal medication and he has helped many people, i contacted him, we talked on phone and i confirmed he was genuine, i did all what he told me to do, i received the medicine, used it as he has prescribed and glory be to God almighty i am completely cured, i went back to my doctor to confirm it. They say there's no cure but my case was different.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#417
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, caution still seems justified, whenever we find toxic effects of materials we might contact daily it's worth considering whether the risk that this is a real and present threat is worth the benefits of having those things around. Similar story with Teflon, plastic packaging and utensils, clothing detergents, surface cleaners, micro-beads in face products, cosmetics, talcum powder, deodorant, etc. For this sp…

I think the gist of your response is that you think the standard should be “first prove it’s retained on dishes” before you remove a known harmful ingredient. I will reiterate that I disagree with this: the well-funded industry deploying the toxic ingredient should be responsible for proving that the toxic ingredient is washed clean. I feel this way for three reasons: (1) the industry chose the ingredient and thus sh…

I think what you are asking for is generally the status quo actually. Industry does not generally choose ingredients so casually without any study at all. And regulators generally require prospective studies on possible harmful effects to people and environments before new compounds can be introduced to products people use all the time. That is most of what the FDA and EPA are up to.

The problem is, people can be wrong. Scientists have bias too. Sometimes people see trends in data not because it's valid but because that's what they were consciously or sub-consciously hoping to find. Even on review of the work by industry and regulatory panels, people still make mistakes. Products still sometimes have effects no one knew about or intended. On top of that, everything is lethal in sufficient quantities. Even water will kill you through electrolyte depletion if you drink enough a once.

My point is just that science is hard, studies are deliberately narrow and careful to try and add one tiny little fact to the pile of all human knowledge. And even then, most early findings turn out to be wrong in various ways or get refined in a way that makes excited reactions later seem overblown. It takes a long time to prove anything like the broad statements we tend to find in sensationalized news coverage. So while caution is fine, immediately assuming that one small study just recently published, yet to be replicated successfully, using a methodology that leaves a huge number of variables open to question between the lab environment and the real world use cases, is just not something to get too excited about.

Maybe the companies that work on rinse aids will want to follow up this line of research and answer some of those questions...but let's be honest, if you're already assuming the product is harmful based sensationalized news, are any follow up papers funded by the interested parties really going to change your mind? Are you even going to look for those papers six months to a year after you toss out your rise aid and demand your favorite restaurants do the same?

If you want to find the studies you would like industry to be doing, I'm sure they are available. Most of the scientific studies out there have something to do with testing products that exist or finding new things to make into new products.

It's just that most studies of anything at all are not terribly sensational. Like, how boring a headline is "dish soap company finds new detergent compound that binds to grease 2% better than the most commonly used compound, no immediately obvious side-effects, more study needed for FDA approval"?

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#418
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, caution still seems justified, whenever we find toxic effects of materials we might contact daily it's worth considering whether the risk that this is a real and present threat is worth the benefits of having those things around. Similar story with Teflon, plastic packaging and utensils, clothing detergents, surface cleaners, micro-beads in face products, cosmetics, talcum powder, deodorant, etc. For this sp…

I think the gist of your response is that you think the standard should be “first prove it’s retained on dishes” before you remove a known harmful ingredient. I will reiterate that I disagree with this: the well-funded industry deploying the toxic ingredient should be responsible for proving that the toxic ingredient is washed clean. I feel this way for three reasons: (1) the industry chose the ingredient and thus sh…

Btw, MSG is found naturally in a bunch of stuff, like the seaweed used in various parts of Chinese and Japanese cuisine. So it's not something a well funded industry invented like artificial sweeteners. (for which it seems no amount of study can stop the bad memes)

Much like yogurt, it's made by fermentation. Much like table salt, it was discovered to be delicious by people putting just about everything in their mouths back in the day. It can be said that MSG was in the process of being well-studied early on when the sensationalized news fouled up the whole process and made people unnecessarily afraid of something no more harmful than table salt.

Decades and tens to hundreds of papers later, the sensationalized story is still winning in the minds of people who don't understand how science works and don't know where most of the stuff around them comes from. This is the problem with overreacting to a headline. You might be doing yourself a favor health wise, possibly, but you might also be demanding millions of restaurants redesign their menus to feed you less healthy, less delicious food, for no good reason.

The problem is, you don't know. That's why it's okay to take a single paper with a grain of salt.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#419
post #24

Oh wait....cue gluten-allergy

I think I have gluten-sensitivity(cant confirm). I rarely eat out. always order delivery, use plastic fork. I dont have a dish washer.

It's not the only cause, but I'd say in general anything that damages the intestinal lining has the potential.

Try and see if you have a B vitamin deficiency, it leads to slower regeneration of the lining.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The marketing side of the market has spoken. Fixed serving sizes force over-use. Lots of included water means extra volume and weight (perceived value) on the shelf. While powders allow measured use, and reduce turnover. I buy 20lb boxes of cheap powder and they last for months. Hot water just doesn’t need that much help if you put some in the pre-wash too.

20 years ago in my country overuse of powder detergents was well known by all the manufacturers; this is when fixed serving sizes were developed as a way to contain the problem and they are also considered more convenient by most consumers. I was working in one of these companies at that time, so I know the subject pretty well.

I'll grant that the pods are often reasonably sized. My main complaint is that they don't provide any detergent to the pre-wash cycle. That can leave a lot of oil for the main wash to process.
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