TSMC ups Arizona investment from $12B to $40B with second semi fab

Post by credit_guy » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 2:34 AM UTC

rjzzleep wrote: post #248

credit_guy wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 50% of the world's neon comes from Ukraine, then 50% comes from outside Ukraine. According to [1] 50.1% comes from the top 3 countries. And the worldwide market size is about $220 MM/year. Let's say that these TSMC plants will consume fully 5% of one year's worth of worldwide production (this is an ultraconservative estimate, as the whole computer industry's share of the neon gas market is 50%). That would be abou…

I've had to look this up because everyone also brings up this point without any proper details. The exact numbers are not known. It's supposedly 45%-55% (at the beginning people were claiming 70%). It's limited to 2 factories. One in Odessa and one in Mariupol. Both of them shut down somewhere at the start of this whole endeavour. The Mariupol one is already in the hands of Russians. It wasn't that close to Azovstal,…

Post by thehappypm » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 3:18 AM UTC

miguelazo wrote: post #225

zdw wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from the wikipedia link - they use sewage/greywater for cooling: > The power plant evaporates the water from the treated sewage from several nearby cities and towns to provide the cooling of the steam that it produces.

This treated sewage is the water that Vegas now provides for general use, and what AZ will need just for its people in about 5 years. Wasting it on chip production is going to go over slightly better than the Saudis wasting groundwater on alfalfa.

Post by stkdump » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 3:44 AM UTC

beachy wrote: post #252

rjzzleep wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had to look this up because everyone also brings up this point without any proper details. The exact numbers are not known. It's supposedly 45%-55% (at the beginning people were claiming 70%). It's limited to 2 factories. One in Odessa and one in Mariupol. Both of them shut down somewhere at the start of this whole endeavour. The Mariupol one is already in the hands of Russians. It wasn't that close to Azovstal,…

> If this is really such a big deal as everyone claims it is, then people will inevitably have to find a compromise with Russia. Why? Better to defeat them militarily and solve the problem once and for all - even if the world has to get by with slightly less advanced chips for a while.

Post by enraged_camel » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 3:57 AM UTC

conradev wrote: post #68

nonethewiser wrote: post #3

Well that seems significant. Article says the chips in the 2nd fabs will be better than the first. And will meet all domestic US demand. Not sure what all that includes. I wonder how domestic the full supply chain is. If the US is relying on China for rare earth metals or something.

Chips primarily require silicon, which is not a rare-earth metal (it is rather abundant), but it takes a lot of expensive equipment and energy to purify it and slice it into wafers. TSMC currently sources their wafers from Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, Germany and others: https://investor.tsmc.com/static/annualReports/2005/pic/E-3-... (edit: that PDF is out of date, but the wafer supplier list largely isn't)

Post by pkaye » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 4:05 AM UTC

conradev wrote: post #68

nonethewiser wrote: post #3

Well that seems significant. Article says the chips in the 2nd fabs will be better than the first. And will meet all domestic US demand. Not sure what all that includes. I wonder how domestic the full supply chain is. If the US is relying on China for rare earth metals or something.

Chips primarily require silicon, which is not a rare-earth metal (it is rather abundant), but it takes a lot of expensive equipment and energy to purify it and slice it into wafers. TSMC currently sources their wafers from Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, Germany and others: https://investor.tsmc.com/static/annualReports/2005/pic/E-3-... (edit: that PDF is out of date, but the wafer supplier list largely isn't)