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It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

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Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#361

Post by zozbot234 »

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #340
zozbot234 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, research also shows that those who identify as trans in middle age are much more likely to be happy when they do choose to transition, compared to the younger folks.

I don't see anything to support this in the literature. The overwhelming majority (94-98%) of youth who transition maintain their gender identity many years later as adults. [1][2] It's hard to imagine they would continue treatment if it was making them miserable. [1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/transgender-kids-tend-to... [2] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4...

AIUI, another user ITT has mentioned https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33883438 that this is merely statistics of how many transitioners formally pursue detransition, and that the numbers of those who practically desist from treatment are a lot higher than that.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#362

Post by out-of-ideas »

werdnapk wrote: post #68

When I was in high school, one of the "popular" kids used to talk a bit odd on purpose and sure, it generated a bit of a chuckle at first, but he kept doing it and a lot of kids also adopted a similar vocal tic to seem like they were part of the cool group as well. Monkey see, monkey do.

it sounds similar to how catch-phrases like simpsons and other shows become common things for kids to adopt and (over)use. i'd say it's hard to break patterns developed when young and seems to be what others around you are doing... downward spiral?

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#363

Post by zozbot234 »

maxbond wrote: post #350
zozbot234 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you need look no further than the comment I criticized. It doesn't say, heterosexuality is prevalent; it says, heterosexuality is total That comment actually said "heterosexuality is normal", which is of course ambiguous - it could mean either of "prevalent" or "not merely prevalent but standard, with deviations from it being seen as undesirable". Heteronormativity might be a description of the latter claim, but to…

It isn't ambiguous if you consider the entire comment, where they go on to clarify what they mean by invoking a naturalism fallacy and contrasting it with other identities (which they clearly describe in pejorative terms as "abnormal" and "misleading" with an overall tone of derision). Of course I acknowledge that most people are heterosexual, that's such misrepresentation of what I'm saying (including that I've dire…

But what I'm taking issue with is merely your claim of heteronormativity as a "set of beliefs and attitudes" that one can ascertain in anything like a consistent way. If compadrazgo and sworn brotherhood are too exotic for you, consider contemporary "bro" subculture; is it heteronormative? Some people might certainly claim as much, calling it especially misogynistic. Yet it also reportedly involves a lot of emotional affection and bonding among males. By and large, it just doesn't square with what you've been supposing in your earlier comments.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#364

Post by throw__away7391 »

lisper wrote: post #355
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #34

From my reading of the article (which is hard to parse not being an expert) it seems there is a German YouTuber with Tourette's who also on his YouTube shows displays non-tourette's tics. And these tics are being copied by other young people watching his shows, and being presented as Tourette's until they arrive at the clinic where these experts go "hang on this kid does not have Tourette's but does have tics similar…

It's plausible [1] [2]. I am by all accounts neurotypical (except perhaps for a touch of Aspergers) but I have an involuntary tic. Every now and then (like once or twice a week) a memory of some incredibly stupid thing that I once did -- sometimes decades ago -- will pop into my head and before I can re-establish conscious control I'll make a vocalization that sounds like a cross between a whimper and a sneeze. It's…

Is this not totally normal and very common though? This exact thing happens to me all the time, with some specific memories linked to seemingly random acts like shaving the left side of my neck.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#365

Post by Karawebnetwork »

pjc50 wrote: post #142

(content warning) It's not commonly discussed, but suicide seems to be a "sociogenic illness" in that reporting on suicides as such can cause more suicides. You may have noticed this in the reporting on celebrity deaths; a young person who "dies suddenly" may be suicide, but news reports will tend to avoid saying that out of concern for the sociogenic effects.

This comes to mind: "Association Between the Release of Netflix’s 13 Reasons Why and Suicide Rates in the United States"

Relevant studies: https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567(19)30288-6/fulltex... https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#367

Post by deanCommie »

incomingpain wrote: post #358

This is the next big area of research in social sciences. You must research this for national security reasons. Early research came in with the idea of mirror neurons but it went further. Statistically you're always going to have 'hot spots' for suicide. # per capita etc. So governments trying to help setup suicide hotlines. Not much uptake on this. So they advertised the suicide hotline and suddenly has mass suicide…

> How about all the kids suddenly becoming trans?

Please do not repeat this right-wing talking point. It is a moral panic, and it causes real harm to kids who need genuine mental health support who are instead being dismissed as being part of a trend.

"all the kids" are not suddenly becoming trans - the incident rates in society are still extremely small.

All rises in incidents of transgenderism are easily explained by a more tolerant society accepting it. The same appeared when we stopped pathologizing left-handedness - all the kids didn't suddenly become left-handed, but the ones that were felt comfortable no longer hiding it.

And by and large, with some exceptions that get consistently magnified by those with an agenda, it is not something you can just do on a whim, and generally requires a lot of counselling and a lot of effort to pursue hormonal or surgical changes.

There are incidents of detransitioning and those that regret it. Those rates are lower than those that regret knee replacements.

Happy to answer any other questions if needed.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#368

Post by tedunangst »

bowsamic wrote: post #31
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been a thing for a while. https://www.reddit.com/r/fakedisordercringe/ It's status as illness though, let alone mass-illness is dubious at best.

If you can't voluntarily stop it and it's causing negative effects to your quality of life then why can't it be called an illness? These people aren't going to get professional help just for the fun of it

> Third, patients often reported to be unable to perform unpleasant tasks because of their symptoms resulting in release from obligations at school and home, while symptoms temporarily completely disappear while conducting favourite activities.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#369

Post by michaelmrose »

rendall wrote: post #298
maxbond wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This narrative of predatory trans people does not bare out, trans people are not assaulting people in bathrooms, and what you're describing is really using the way our society is built to be hostile to people who do not fit into gender norms as a way to justify further hostility. It's saying, oh look, we built bathrooms and prisons in a way that reinforces these norms, well, I guess we're stuck with them.

> This narrative of predatory trans people does not bare out... I didn't say predatory trans people. I said predatory men. Have you met men? Some men will put on a dress, call themselves trans, and fondle themselves in a women's locker room. Again, pretending this is about trans people is disingenuous. This is about (some) men. And, again, whether you genuinely dismiss the concern because you genuinely disbelieve tha…

This is a meaningless concern. Any man who would put on a dress to come assault you in the bathroom could skip the dress part and just come in the bathroom and assault you. It's like saying some rapists have red hair. It's true but its not meaningful because no fruitful thing can be derived from the fact nor strategy obtained.

There are millions of trans people in the world but presumably few rapists in dresses. The spurious focus on pointless concerns suggests we ought to harm the dignity of millions for a fictional advantage.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#370

Post by lisper »

throw__away7391 wrote: post #364
lisper wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's plausible [1] [2]. I am by all accounts neurotypical (except perhaps for a touch of Aspergers) but I have an involuntary tic. Every now and then (like once or twice a week) a memory of some incredibly stupid thing that I once did -- sometimes decades ago -- will pop into my head and before I can re-establish conscious control I'll make a vocalization that sounds like a cross between a whimper and a sneeze. It's…

Is this not totally normal and very common though? This exact thing happens to me all the time, with some specific memories linked to seemingly random acts like shaving the left side of my neck.

I have no idea if it's common or not. It might be. It's not the sort of thing people generally discuss. This is the first time I've ever talked about it.
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