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Automation enables founders to grow companies with fewer and fewer employees

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Re: Automation enables founders to grow companies with fewer and fewer employees

#71
post #37

This is clear to anyone with freshman macroeconomics - The Cobb-Douglas function for factor productivity: Y = A * L^β * K^α Value of your work depends on how well you wield capital (K) and labor (L). Code, Cloud and AI have massively improved α while β is at generational lows.

Why do you think the output elasticity for labor is low? Is it a case of having to work a certain number of hours to get medical care? Is it the price of medical care? It seems like modern tools and automation would help it be higher?

Re: Automation enables founders to grow companies with fewer and fewer employees

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those who have dedicated many hours of their lives digging their own grave I fixed that for you.

Yep. Absolute suckers for giving out their work for free I guess.

You misunderstand their intentions.

“I’ve already got the prize. The prize is the pleasure of finding things out, the kick in the discovery, the observation that other people use it - those are the real things, the honors are unreal to me.” -Richard Feynman

Re: Automation enables founders to grow companies with fewer and fewer employees

#74
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, negating “employees created all the value” does not mean, “founders create all the value”. It means employees didn’t.

So who is the magical missing third party that created value?

The exploited consumers that give up all their sweet sweet data to the surveillance capitalism complex?

Re: Automation enables founders to grow companies with fewer and fewer employees

#75
> You still occasionally hear people saying that founders don't deserve to be rich, because their employees created all the value.

What I actually hear people saying (including at least one person from YC) is that founders need to share the potential wealth more fairly with early hires. With various rationales, including that execution is everything: having an idea and raising money for it isn't execution -- and the founders need the early hires to execute successfully.

> But the falsity of this claim becomes increasingly obvious as automation enables founders to grow companies with fewer and fewer employees.

I'm not following the logic, but the initial assertion seems like it'd tend to be received sloppily, anyway. Whether founders deserve to be rich seems like a diversion from the usual question: why do founders with a successful exit get rich when employees get even less than they would've been guaranteed at a non-startup tech job.

> In the limit case, you're left with just the founders. And we're not far from it. Instagram had only 13 employees when it was sold for a billion dollars.

So share the wealth with those 13 employees. "I have an idea for site/app" and getting some funding isn't worth a billion dollars. Successful execution is.

> And a billion was if anything below market price. People mocked that deal at the time, but in retrospect it was a bargain.

Isn't part of the job of those founders to make sure the exit is at market value? Were the wealth spread around more evenly, so that everyone who made the success possible can get rich, the founders might have more motivation to get a good price. :)

(I suppose that an exception to this would be if a startup is actually closer to an investment scam, propped up by other startups in a portfolio as customers, and they expect all the workers involved to do only mechanical tasks in which individual creativity/ideas/brilliance/etc. doesn't significantly affect the success of the company.)

Re: Automation enables founders to grow companies with fewer and fewer employees

#76
post #36

He is implying that founders can create a lot of value without employees, and that the claim that employees also create value is false. If that's true, then what about a social experiment: If you are a solo founder, you get all your profits for yourself. But if you have employees, you have to share your profits with your employees. If employees don't produce any value, easy, fire them all, you get everything. But if…

Paying a wage = sharing your profits, just not on a % base, but a fixed amount. But in the end it's still: less profits for the founder, and more profit for the employee.

No not really. If I generate $1m of value for a company and they pay me $90k a year that isn't really sharing profit.

Re: Automation enables founders to grow companies with fewer and fewer employees

#77
post #26
post #7

It's frightening that people "at the top" write those things without even realizing how it sounds for ordinary people. I think this delusion is on par with Marie Antoinette and her "eat cakes if you don't have bread".

What happened to the future, a 3 day week for all as computers/machines did the work.

Because of the competitive nature of business (and humans).

If you can build a factory that can build products more efficiently, it means you can sell them cheaper then your competitors, meaning you can move more volume and thus make more profit. So you are definitely not going to run that new shiny factory for only 3 days a week.

Eventually, competitors will notice your improved output and react with their own improved factory. If you sit still in your shiny new factory, you will eventually be outpaced by competitors as they catch up.

In the end though, the throughput per human is greatly increased as computers and machines do (most of) the work. This has increased prosperity greatly.

Unless you can accept living with less then the competition, you are not going to work less then your competitors.

Re: Automation enables founders to grow companies with fewer and fewer employees

#78

He is implying that founders can create a lot of value without employees, and that the claim that employees also create value is false. If that's true, then what about a social experiment: If you are a solo founder, you get all your profits for yourself. But if you have employees, you have to share your profits with your employees. If employees don't produce any value, easy, fire them all, you get everything. But if…

I think it could happen. AI and automation have the tendency of amplifying ability. The ideal company has zero employees. Similarity, the ideal world has zero employees and everyone does want they want. If that scares you, give your head a shake.

Re: Automation enables founders to grow companies with fewer and fewer employees

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow? Lots of technical founders create their own automations.

His whole point is: There is a lot of great free open source software being exploited by small technical teams to run faster. This means the people doing the integration deserve less $$ because they can do the same amount with less. Founders deserve all the money, everybody else should be happy to be employed. 1920s robber baron bs. Ignore the ethics that every single startup would be impossible without standing on t…

I made this exact argument in the early 2000s when open source starting getting popular and many in the tech community thought I was ridiculous.

I think it's ridiculous that open source developers give out their hard work willingly and then seem to think big companies are 'taking advantage' by not hiring them or funding the project.

It has nothing to do with ethics. Startups didn't steal anything. The developers gave it out willingly.

This sort of attitude has soured me to the entire open source community. They want to be able to give their work out for free, but then have a say in who uses it and how it's used, which is exactly the opposite of free and open.

Re: Automation enables founders to grow companies with fewer and fewer employees

#80
This is this thinking of "Automation reduces workforce". The next argument then is always "We need Basic Income" because of this.

But this is ignoring the fact that automation never replaced workforce as such. It moved the focus of the workforce. At the end more automation even required more workforce.

The thing is, you cannot engineer the process to be automated. You need to keep maintaining the automation. This includes not only daily maintenance, but also to keep up with obsolescence. You need to keep-up with new upcoming technologies of automation to replace your old once. But all this distracts and takes-away focus on the development of you product. So you need workforce to basically run your business, while you can still stay focused. But even then you can't stay focused, because it is also your job to decide what newer automation processes to chose. As this will have an impact on your own product. That again takes away you focus for the development of you product. So again you need workforce to help you to stay focused. At some point you need workforce to manage your workforce namely HR.

So there is a cycle when you get more and more workforce so that you stay focused to develop your product.

All that of course assuming that you need to develop your product even further after launch.

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