Remote work is gutting downtowns • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#31

Post by brookst » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

awesomegoat_com wrote: post #20

nonethewiser wrote: post #8

Sucks for downtown's but I'm glad to see anything that leads to a broader distribution of population.

This. And I would say the broader distribution will actually be good for the environment as whole. Or at least it could be.

Walk me through that thinking?

Downtown residents walk and use transit. Places with broader distribution of people typically rely on roads because transit isn’t economically efficient.

My intuition is that higher population densities are more environmentally efficient because more people can be served by any resource. Are you thinking otherwise?

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#32

Post by josefresco » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

City downtown or small town downtown? This sounds like city-downtown.

Traditional "downtown" America was killed or mortally wounded by Walmart many years ago. In fact, the town I grew up in got a Walmart in the mid-90's and now it has a robust stretch of highway with every "big box" vendor. Guess what happened to the quant brick building downtown that used to have every store one could need? The town I would bike around every day, meet my friends and where my mom and her peers worked? Dead. It's now a mishmash of crap stores and empty storefronts despite hosting a decent college.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#33

Post by bin_bash » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 2:18 PM UTC

osigurdson wrote: post #7

So, what is the solution? Force everyone back into the pointless office at enormous cost to employees and employers just to keep the status quo for landlords. The bottom line is downtown is a place where people work with information. Since it is possible to work with information anywhere, this place isn't needed (and hasn't been for a long time). Downtown obsolete.

Half of the article talks about solutions. The last 2 sections are: "It's about new housing, stupid" and "The birth of the central social district"

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#34

Post by hobbitstan » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

As a side note: the quality of life of pets has increased dramatically since the pandemic. With people working from home, they now have more company and less time spent locked in crates. That’s the reason I have for not returning to the office and will ensure I only do remote work from now on.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#35

Post by blockwriter » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 2:20 PM UTC

HBO Max has a documentary about the Automat, which was once America's largest chain restaurant. You could put in coins and receive food from small automated doors and spigots at the Automat. Its downfall came with expansion of the suburbs, as there were fewer people remaining in the city center after work. The present crisis of city centers seems similar. I'm not sure if the relevance of city centers has basically been downhill since the first half of the 20th century, or if this phenomenon is cyclical. Give it a watch.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#36

Post by BurningFrog » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 2:20 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #24

osigurdson wrote: post #7

So, what is the solution? Force everyone back into the pointless office at enormous cost to employees and employers just to keep the status quo for landlords. The bottom line is downtown is a place where people work with information. Since it is possible to work with information anywhere, this place isn't needed (and hasn't been for a long time). Downtown obsolete.

Convert offices to apartments to alleviate the housing supply shortage.

That turns out to be surprisingly hard.

Offices and housing look similar from the outside, but are quite different on the inside, and both practical and regulatory problems are quite large.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#37

Post by DanCarvajal » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 2:21 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #24

osigurdson wrote: post #7

So, what is the solution? Force everyone back into the pointless office at enormous cost to employees and employers just to keep the status quo for landlords. The bottom line is downtown is a place where people work with information. Since it is possible to work with information anywhere, this place isn't needed (and hasn't been for a long time). Downtown obsolete.

Convert offices to apartments to alleviate the housing supply shortage.

My city has a few neat adaptive reuse projects right now converting office building to residential buildings. I really hope the concept works out.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#38

Post by rayiner » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 2:22 PM UTC

This is great for the climate, for families, and for residential communities. I’ve commuted so much less and spent so much more time with my kids since remote work. And impromptu gatherings with neighbors seems to be up at least for us.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#39

Post by ethagknight » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 2:23 PM UTC

brookst wrote: post #17

osigurdson wrote: post #7

So, what is the solution? Force everyone back into the pointless office at enormous cost to employees and employers just to keep the status quo for landlords. The bottom line is downtown is a place where people work with information. Since it is possible to work with information anywhere, this place isn't needed (and hasn't been for a long time). Downtown obsolete.

There isn’t a mechanism to “force” anyone. With few exceptions, companies lease their office space. A few companies may try to force employees to sit in a leased office to feed the sunk cost fallacy, but that won’t last. Only the most incompetent management will renew leases to support employees who don’t want to be there in the first place. The actual solution is large scale conversion of commercial real estate to r…

Large office towers just do not convert to residential very well. It can be done, it can be tolerated, it's just not a very good or competitive product, while also being very expensive to implement. One example, People walk a few blocks from the parking garage to their place of employment, but in most cities, people will not walk a few blocks from the parking garage to their home.

Adding insult to injury, office towers that have been constructed in the last 50 years are very expensive to maintain, mechanical systems are expensive and complicated, requires a full-time staff to run. They were built for utilization at very different price point.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#40

Post by haney » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 2:23 PM UTC

The article mentions Facebook closing two of their smaller offices without mentioning that 770 is still the same size and that they’re getting ready to move into the largest office they’re ever had in the city near Penn Station.