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It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

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Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#231

Post by simplotek »

RocketOne wrote: post #226
ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

This is exactly what I thought of when I saw "social media-induced illness": MSMI I saw this in the school I led, especially in young girls. One of them starts cutting, suddenly we have multiple girls cutting. One of them struggles with bulimia, suddenly the guidance counselor is reporting that she has an inordinate number of girls coming in for counselling about bulimia. I dont think its any different with claiming…

> I saw this in the school I led, especially in young girls. One of them starts cutting, suddenly we have multiple girls cutting. One of them struggles with bulimia, suddenly the guidance counselor is reporting that she has an inordinate number of girls coming in for counselling about bulimia.

When you showcase suicides on TV you also have upticks in suicides. Same goes for mass shootings, copycat murderers, and even political protests.

When the 101 dalmatians movie was released, there was also an uptick in demand for dalmatians.

I fail to see how this means it's ok to fabricate diseases to downplay the effect that mass media has on people.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#232

Post by blueflow »

nathias wrote: post #83
ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

I think this generation is forced into gender essentialism, gender non-conformity used to be much more normal, now it's redefined as if really a conformity to another gender ... very totalitarian

Decades ago, a woman had to do the cleaning chores... nowadays you are the women because you do the cleaning chores. Its the same sexism thinking, but the path is walked the other way.

Always be wary of persons who sort your behavior into 'male' and 'female' categories.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#233

Post by red_admiral »

niom wrote: post #188
throwaway049 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'The last several decades' is an odd specification. Are you saying there was a point in the quite recent past when this was different?

Yes. Outright bans and persecution of homosexuality is relatively new. Effeminate gays were practically eradicated, Europe had the Nazis do it, the US had the lavender scare (because gay=communist), the Soviets under Stalin did much like the Nazis. This is why gays reinvented themselves into the hypermasculine leather culture starting in the 50s. It's why older gay men have negative attitudes towards younger effemina…

Upvote.

For anyone else wanting more context, this is an ok starting point: https://www.artofmanliness.com/people/relationships/the-hist... (but note that the side of the story from inside the gay community is yet another matter, as niom hints at)

Basically, before most people knew that "gay" was a thing, there was much less pressure on men to be performatively straight.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#234

Post by Kye »

maxbond wrote: post #163
gadders wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debunked by whom? Happy to read a paper or two. I don't think at all that LGBTQ people "infect" people - that is your choice of words, not mine. But it seems strange to think that tourettes, anorexia, self-harming and even suicide can be socially transmitted but for this one specific condition (for which there is no medical test) it's impossible and has never happened.

I understand these are not the words you used, or necessarily ideas you hold; what I am describing is the role it plays in the wider rhetorical space. I should have made that more clear, it does look like I was calling you out for that. I'll see if I can edit it in a better way. Recommending literature is a skill I am still working on; I know things about this or that, but I didn't keep a record of how I learned them…

It's honestly enough to remember and point out the whole concept is based on a study that only polled parents who aren't supportive of their trans kids. Anyone with a shred of genuine interest in being fair and accurate should be able to see right through the study. It's so bad that even prominent transphobes don't seem to talk about it anymore.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#235

Post by dahfizz »

bognition wrote: post #139
xd wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent I have no idea what you are trying to say with this idea of pushing "heteronormativity" - I don't and don't know any parents that push anything sexual let alone encouraging kids to explore sexuality .. they are kids and will be kids until they mature and begin to feel the urge to explore. This normalising of sexualising of children is abhorrent. Edit: the voting on this comment is crazy.. the number of HN…

I get it that this stuff is confusing and can be hard to make sense of at first, but gender identity and sexuality are completely different things. Also I'm not accusing anyone of pushing this on their kids, rather, our society does it in massive doses. Watch most children's TV shows or movies and heteronormativity is abundant. For a pretty clean example of this check out the movie Up by Pixar. The first 10 minutes o…

> I get it that this stuff is confusing and can be hard to make sense of at first, but gender identity and sexuality are completely different things.

Yeah, but the comment OP is responding to was explicitly about letting kids "explore their sexuality".

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#236

Post by maxbond »

blueflow wrote: post #217
maxbond wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gender identity and sexual orientation are different concepts. Exploring gender identity is not the same as exploring sexuality. Children are constantly exploring identity, as I'm sure you have observed. For instance, I am a straight man, but when I was a child I sometimes stole my mother's lipstick and tried to put it on, or I would play with Barbie dolls. I saw that other people incorporated these activities in the…

> My parents didn't like me playing with Barbie dolls; they explicitly told me that it wasn't something boys did. Same with me, but let me ask you a question. Were you the sort of kid that actually listens to their parents? Because i didn't, and most of my peers didn't, either.

No, I was stubborn like mule. I wore my parents down until they caved. That doesn't mean it didn't have an impact though, I certainly picked up what they were putting down.

Now, the reaction of my friends when they came over and looked at me funny when I tried to show them my awesome Princess Gwenevere and the Jewel Riders doll (it had wings and could fly if you pulled a ripcord! That's objectively cool. Also, dangerous, especially to taller adults in the area.), that was painful.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#237

Post by niom »

simiones wrote: post #221
niom wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Outright bans and persecution of homosexuality is relatively new. Effeminate gays were practically eradicated, Europe had the Nazis do it, the US had the lavender scare (because gay=communist), the Soviets under Stalin did much like the Nazis. This is why gays reinvented themselves into the hypermasculine leather culture starting in the 50s. It's why older gay men have negative attitudes towards younger effemina…

> Outright bans and persecution of homosexuality is relatively new. In most of Europe at least, homosexuality could not be openly practiced for most of the middle ages. There were certain exceptions, but it was not generally considered acceptable, and it was persecuted by the church or other moral authorities, at the very least as ostracism if not outright legal punishments - usually seen as a deviant sexual act, whi…

Ancient acceptance of MSM generally depended on who did the penetrating, because in a nutshell penetrating was manly and A-OK while being penetrated (orally / anally / vaginally) was womanly and hence bad. MSM was an exercise of social power.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#238

Post by red_admiral »

niom wrote: post #230
red_admiral wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have gender dysphoria myself, and you get an upvote from me because I think you are speaking the truth in a way that would lead to better outcomes for many of the affected people, if one properly thought through the implications. I understand gender dysphoria (as opposed to body dysphoria/dysmorphia in a stricter sense) to be a mismatch between someone's own preferences, interests etc. inasfar as they touch on cate…

The "trans/gay/lesbian is cool now" explanation doesn't hold a lot of water to me. If I had the choice to not be gay, I wouldn't be. Life would be so much easier, emotionally and otherwise. Sex would be lower risk and it would be much easier to find a romantic partner. I spent a long time - two decades - suppressing it, as hard as I could, and it did not go away. Instead I was anxious and depressed. After I started t…

It is "cool" inside a very small, but very powerful, stratum of society. You are right that there are still a lot of places where being queer (whether of the LGB or T variety) is a huge disadvantage.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#239

Post by bowsamic »

astura wrote: post #47
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been a thing for a while. https://www.reddit.com/r/fakedisordercringe/ It's status as illness though, let alone mass-illness is dubious at best.

These illnesses appear to be very real, even if sociogenetic in origin. Someone researching the same thing has this to say https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/nov/16/the-unknown-is... >Olvera’s research has not gone down well in some quarters. “I’m frustrated,” she says. “I’ve tried to stop reading a lot of what is written out there.” She’s received “lots” of angry emails. “My colleagues have had a positive respon…

A lot of the responses in this thread demonstrate the same dismissal that she discusses

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#240

Post by denton-scratch »

ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

> illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented

Can you explain what it means for an illness to be "statistically over-represented"?

I can parse it several ways, but not so it makes sense. E.g.

- Gender dysphoria is more common than influenza

- Gender dysphoria is more common in human societies than in gendered alien communities

- Gender dysphoria is discussed by a greater proportion of Youtube posters than you'd expect from it's rate in the population

I'm guessing you mean the last; but I have no idea how mmuch it's discussed on Youtube, and I doubt there are reliable figures for its occurrence in the population.

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