Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

academic.oup.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 704 posts

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#121

Post by albert_e »

indigochill wrote: post #72
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #34

From my reading of the article (which is hard to parse not being an expert) it seems there is a German YouTuber with Tourette's who also on his YouTube shows displays non-tourette's tics. And these tics are being copied by other young people watching his shows, and being presented as Tourette's until they arrive at the clinic where these experts go "hang on this kid does not have Tourette's but does have tics similar…

There may be a relation to military conditioning. I spent just a single week at a military academy introductory program in high school and when I returned home I was "uncontrollably" (if I thought about it I could avoid doing it, but if I was on autopilot it happened by itself) squaring my corners and calling my family "sir" and "ma'am". The thing was, those patterns were my entire life for that week, and they were v…

I read about "mirror neurons" where humans watching others do physical activity also have some of the same neural pathways fire.

(V. S. RAMACHANDRAN)

The author/researcher says he believes that is one of the main mechanisms of human learning (babies look at adults and imitate. Adults look at other adults and imitate. Subconsciously)

What you are describing sounds very similar.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#122

Post by causi »

ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

The way we have leapt from one societal belief to the other end of the spectrum is, I believe, interfering with objective healthcare. We started at "people who believe and behave outside of gender norms are perverted freaks" and we jumped straight to "you are whatever you think you are." Between those two paradigms there are questions it has become very difficult to research. Questions like "is it possible we are categorizing more than one mental state as being transgender" as an explanation for why some people greatly benefit from transitioning while others are destroyed by it. Questions like "is modifying the body a better treatment than modifying the mind at our current level of medical capability?"

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#123

Post by Macha »

funcDropShadow wrote: post #86
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What boggles my mind is that people who adamantly claim that all gender behavior is socially constructed are the ones who are the first to denounce the idea that you can learn to want to be another gender.

And they are absolutely sure that you need a physical modification to adapt to a socially constructed norm. And at the same time they demand medical procedures while denying that it is a medical condition, whose treatment needs to be studied with scientific rigor. Instead they say the affected persons know their best treatment. Just imagine applying that same approach to addicts.

Is it? Transmedicalists (those who belive sex reassignment is a required goal) are a minority in trans communities and "truscum" was created as a derogatory term for this attitude indicating its unpopularity.

If you mean puberty blockers for trans youth rather than sex reassignment, they have much more support because of their non-permanent nature. We let many teenagers make decisions about things like tattoos and piercings too

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#124

Post by maxbond »

lzaaz wrote: post #116
maxbond wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always read flagged comments, and I vouch for them when I feel they've been unfairly flagged (or when they're from banned accounts that are automatically flagged, but the comment is unobjectionable). This is however a tacit admission that what you have to say is against the guidelines of this site and that, were you to let it compete in the market place of ideas, it would be fail completely.

The fact that an opinion is censored by the means of flagging means that it doesn't have a chance to compete in the "marketplace of ideas".

No, that is the idea being assigned a negative value.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#125

Post by pjc50 »

Macha wrote: post #70
ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

Of course if gender non-normativity can be learned, so too can gender normativity (e.g. bro culture is arguably a form of men learning to do what their local culture considers male things). I don't think all trans people would disagree with that part as much as you think (see the "I never knew that could be an option" thoughts from some late transitioners reflecting back), the bit they'd disagree with is the idea tha…

> "I never knew that could be an option" thoughts from some late transitioners

Anedotally, the three people I knew before transition who later transitioned have all expressed some form of process "I was depressed and didn't understand why" -> "I had these thoughts but suppressed them because I felt they were weird / unacceptable" -> "I learned what transition is and the pieces fell into place".

Edit: over a period of many years, that's why they were late transitioners!

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#126

Post by somedude895 »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #34

From my reading of the article (which is hard to parse not being an expert) it seems there is a German YouTuber with Tourette's who also on his YouTube shows displays non-tourette's tics. And these tics are being copied by other young people watching his shows, and being presented as Tourette's until they arrive at the clinic where these experts go "hang on this kid does not have Tourette's but does have tics similar…

It's the mere suggestion that they might have those tics, but the article says:

> Fourth, in some patients, a rapid and complete remission occurred after exclusion of the diagnosis of Tourette syndrome.

It also mentions other examples of MSI, where symptoms across the group would subside after a couple weeks or months. So yeah, in most cases all it needs is someone to say Stop That! You're imagining things

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#127

Post by xd »

dsiegel2275 wrote: post #108
xd wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent I have no idea what you are trying to say with this idea of pushing "heteronormativity" - I don't and don't know any parents that push anything sexual let alone encouraging kids to explore sexuality .. they are kids and will be kids until they mature and begin to feel the urge to explore. This normalising of sexualising of children is abhorrent. Edit: the voting on this comment is crazy.. the number of HN…

I think "pushing heteronormativity" doesn't need to be a conscious, deliberate act and it doesn't need to be anything related to sex. It can be as simple as a parent buying their son a toy truck for their birthday while buying a barbie doll for their daughter: a reinforcement of socially acceptable gender roles

I've never known a kid to not ask for toys they prefer.. you make the simple act of giving a child a gift sound sinister.. what a world we live in.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#128

Post by ReactiveJelly »

Macha wrote: post #70
ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

Of course if gender non-normativity can be learned, so too can gender normativity (e.g. bro culture is arguably a form of men learning to do what their local culture considers male things). I don't think all trans people would disagree with that part as much as you think (see the "I never knew that could be an option" thoughts from some late transitioners reflecting back), the bit they'd disagree with is the idea tha…

Yeah the reason that the "social contagion" stuff makes my blood pressure spike is because it's almost always a prelude to some kind of "And they're trying to force-feminize everyone and then they're gonna take our children" stuff.

You know like, Quentin Tarantino isn't racist even though he said the N word, but if I'm walking down the street and a total stranger comes up to me and starts throwing the N word around, safe bet they're saying something dumb.

See my comment a few days ago about "The Internet is graffiti in a bathroom stall". I could probably have a calm good-faith conversation with any of you in real life about gender. But not on a web forum.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#129

Post by mahathu »

HPsquared wrote: post #30
ejolto wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last sentence of the abstract felt especially unnatural: > since spread via social media is no longer restricted to specific locations such as local communities or school environments spread via social media is no longer restricted to specific locations such as schools or towns.

It's just missing a comma.

A comma would help, but it's not just that.

They used the phrase "spread via social media" and pointed out that spread isn't locally restricted anymore twice for no reason. They're also using circular reasoning. A more concise way to phrase this would have been:

> since [the images and videos] are shared via social media, spread is no longer restricted to specific locations such as local communities or school environments.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#130

Post by Ord3rChaos »

meowfly wrote: post #94
johnnymorgan wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High performance people have been saying this for generations. Surround yourself with positive, talented people to keep your mind clean. Hell even vogue and trash mags call out 'energy vampires' (lol) but it's all the same thing. I legit decided to not listen to gangster rap in the 90s because a dude said to me 'that shit will warp your mind ' but I realized all music and influences do that. So books it was...god I w…

I still listen to "gangster rap" and I'm doing well enough. It's entirely possible to listen to Trap and not drink lean. There are plenty of dorks (I use the word affectionately) watching anime whose fandom has subsumed their ability to be successful. I do think that a person's life trajectory is affected by their closest friends, especially in high school.

Can you honestly say that your lived experience hasn't changed you? It's clear "gangster rap" doesn't ruin anyone's lives like the parents of the 90's thought it might. That doesn't absolve it from affecting you in more subtle ways (good and bad).
Post reply on HN