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VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

reuters.com

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Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#101

Post by jwblackwell »

buro9 wrote: post #26
bryanlarsen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand, Europeans count stat holidays, and Americans don't. A typical American gets 2 weeks of stat holidays on top of their 2 weeks of personal holidays, so that's almost the same as the European getting 4 weeks.

Erm, I've never received so little holiday, even when I worked low paid manual work. Currently I get 25 days per year not including 6 days stat, for 31 days total or just over 6 weeks total. This is considered average for London and the UK, I would consider 5 weeks to be the absolute low end in the UK. At the upper end in London the news about the Tube Drivers strike disclosed that they have 40+ days holiday, which i…

20-25 seems to be the norm in London. Unless you're a tube driver when you get 40, 35k and still complain.

I can't wait for the day all trains are auto pilot.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#102

Post by Daishiman »

eigenvector wrote: post #78
s1rech wrote: post #3

I live in Germany, and I know many engineers who work for one of the big carmakers (either directly or through some external company). Most of them are under some form of collective bargaining agreement. They have a lot of nice perks, like paid overtime (in the form of days of) and pretty good salaries. Meanwhile I work as a developer for an internet company. I've never heard of anybody working under a CBA, or any ki…

I'm a Canadian that has worked in a few large, unionized public or quasi-public workplaces as an engineer. In general hours of work, benefits (extended medical / dental) and vacation / sick leave will be better than in non-union private sector workplaces. Salaries tend to higher at the entry-level and comparable at the high end. However, I have always found employee satisfaction and employee-management relations to b…

| I'd much rather work in a non-union workplace where I get benefits above the statutory minimums because the company truly values it's employees and understands that people who are treated well are more productive than one where everything I get was a concession to avoid labour strife.

Agreed, but do take notice that most people, in most industries, generally don't have that choice

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#103

Post by cubicle67 »

afterburner wrote: post #13
vaksel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has plenty of unions and Mercedes, BMW, Audi seem to be doing well enough You have two sides, with U.S. on one side where workers just work, with little thought for quality of life, and the other side is Europe, where they get paid a bit less, but they have 4 weeks vacation and much less demanding work load. I dunno about you, but I'd gladly sacrifice $10K(which is pretty much the whole difference between the…

4 is the absolute minimum, and in most countries that minimum is 5. The average is more like 7 weeks.

in Australia, we get 20 days holiday, 10 days public holiday and up to 10 days sick leave, so up to 40 paid days off per year.

Holidays and sick days are cumulative too, and you're entitled to be paid for untaken ones when you leave your job, so log as you've worked there a minimum of 1 year

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#104

Post by GuiA »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #99
GuiA wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you bring it down to numbers, the pay is definitely higher in the US. For instance, an average software engineer out of school can expect a starting salary between 25 and 35k euros on average in France. In SF, it's more $70-90k at the very least. But then you have to account for the higher cost of living, transportation (even if you don't drive, French employers pay for a part of your public transportation tickets…

You have it backwards - the cost of living is considerably higher in France than in the US. What costs $1 in the US costs $1.20 in France [1]. ...better public education... Um, no. Better students, but a considerably worse public education system. http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-abou... The cheese, however, is considerably better in France, as are the women (fatties over here drag our average…

Interesting data, thanks for looking it up+linking it!

Based on my very subjective experience living in both countries (France growing up + undergrad, US as a graduate student+working), I would say much depends on the size of the city where you live.

Living in San Francisco definitely costs much more than living in Lyon (2nd largest city in France) for me- if you look at the apartment alone, I'd have to shell out $2k+ for something I'd easily have in France for under a thousand euros in terms of size + proximity to businesses.

But then for the food + basic expenses (clothing, etc.) I feel like I spend about the same, although some things are more expensive in the US (public transportation, cell phone plans,...).

When I lived in Grenoble I lived a comfortable student life on 1000 euros a month- this would be nowhere sufficient to live comfortably with in SF. But of course the cities are of different sizes, so again this is very shaky grounds for accurate comparison.

I don't want to end up posting a novel here, but it's definitely an interesting topic on which I'd love to hear more insights from european expatriates in the US (or the opposite).

As for the cheese, you are completely right– and regarding the women, I don't want to belittle my fellow French women, but I would be lying if I said I hadn't found delightful ladies in SF :)

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#105

Post by duck »

cookiecaper wrote: post #63
hammock wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that supposed to be different from the states, where many retail stores close sometime between 7-9pm?

If you're a mom and pop or speciality shop you may close between 7 and 9 (usually closer to 9), but most of the regional or national "stores" close between 10pm and 12am. Grocery stores are even better, generally either closing at 12am or not closing at all. Wal-Mart, for instance, is mostly 24 hours, and Wal-Mart is very widespread.

It really depends where you live. In Maine, all grocery stores that I know of close no later than 9pm. I really think that is better too, especially since a lot of the employees are high school kids.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#106

Post by geogra4 »

billybob wrote: post #36
zbuc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's start a union.

I can't see how unions are good for anybody. They certainly seem to have crippled GM for a long time. If the workers force the company into unreasonable levels of benefits, it falters and they eventually lose their jobs. I'm all for fair play and sensible regulations, but if the company can't forbid the workers from quitting, I don't see how it's fair that the workers can forbid the company from hiring someone else.…

GM crippled themselves with terribly designed automobiles that no one wanted to purchase.

Power and information asymmetry are the rule when you are negotiating with your boss independently. He knows what the other employees at your company make. You do not.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#107

Post by count »

geogra4 wrote: post #106
billybob wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how unions are good for anybody. They certainly seem to have crippled GM for a long time. If the workers force the company into unreasonable levels of benefits, it falters and they eventually lose their jobs. I'm all for fair play and sensible regulations, but if the company can't forbid the workers from quitting, I don't see how it's fair that the workers can forbid the company from hiring someone else.…

GM crippled themselves with terribly designed automobiles that no one wanted to purchase. Power and information asymmetry are the rule when you are negotiating with your boss independently. He knows what the other employees at your company make. You do not.

That's a funny statement, given that GM, even in their crippled state, is the 1st or 2nd largest seller of autos in the world (Toyota and GM have traded places a few times this year, I think?). For terribly designed autos that nobody wanted to purchase, SALES obviously wasn't a big problem for them.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#108

Post by eigenvector »

Daishiman wrote: post #102
eigenvector wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Canadian that has worked in a few large, unionized public or quasi-public workplaces as an engineer. In general hours of work, benefits (extended medical / dental) and vacation / sick leave will be better than in non-union private sector workplaces. Salaries tend to higher at the entry-level and comparable at the high end. However, I have always found employee satisfaction and employee-management relations to b…

| I'd much rather work in a non-union workplace where I get benefits above the statutory minimums because the company truly values it's employees and understands that people who are treated well are more productive than one where everything I get was a concession to avoid labour strife. Agreed, but do take notice that most people, in most industries, generally don't have that choice

I agree, many industries are a race to the bottom as far as treating your employees like people - retail, for example. But for 'knowledge workers' like most folks on HN, I think the tide is beginning to turn with a lot of tech companies realizing that employees who actually like the company, who can go grab an appetizing meal without leaving the office, or use whatever office furniture makes them most efficient, etc etc are going to generate more value for owners/shareholders than a 9-5 drone.

And just to clarify on the use of the term 'engineer', I am an electrical engineer specializing in protection & control. I have worked alongside a variety of electrical, civil, mechanical and industrial engineers in power generation, transmission and distribution. I long for the day when there is a company in my field with a startup mentality.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#109

Post by nzmsv »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #99
GuiA wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you bring it down to numbers, the pay is definitely higher in the US. For instance, an average software engineer out of school can expect a starting salary between 25 and 35k euros on average in France. In SF, it's more $70-90k at the very least. But then you have to account for the higher cost of living, transportation (even if you don't drive, French employers pay for a part of your public transportation tickets…

You have it backwards - the cost of living is considerably higher in France than in the US. What costs $1 in the US costs $1.20 in France [1]. ...better public education... Um, no. Better students, but a considerably worse public education system. http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-abou... The cheese, however, is considerably better in France, as are the women (fatties over here drag our average…

Providing facts does not excuse acting like a jackass.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#110

Post by mahyarm »

GuiA wrote: post #91
mahyarm wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are wages in europe for engineers and developers? I look at wages in Europe compared to the USA, and even though we work a lot more, developers do get paid far more too, especially when you compare on a cost of living and taxation basis.

If you bring it down to numbers, the pay is definitely higher in the US. For instance, an average software engineer out of school can expect a starting salary between 25 and 35k euros on average in France. In SF, it's more $70-90k at the very least. But then you have to account for the higher cost of living, transportation (even if you don't drive, French employers pay for a part of your public transportation tickets…

A lot of SF employers of engineers serve all three meals, or at least lunch, pay health insurance and provide public transportation subsidization too, so on that basis they're about equal. Health insurance while unemployed isn't so nice although. Owning a motor vehicle on gas cost alone is almost double so I hear.
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