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VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

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Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#71
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has plenty of unions and Mercedes, BMW, Audi seem to be doing well enough You have two sides, with U.S. on one side where workers just work, with little thought for quality of life, and the other side is Europe, where they get paid a bit less, but they have 4 weeks vacation and much less demanding work load. I dunno about you, but I'd gladly sacrifice $10K(which is pretty much the whole difference between the…

When you consider that in the UK NI is 11/12% and that covers the NHS and your state pension plus SERPS (second state pension) and unemployment benefits. I knew a guy who emigrated to the USA and was working for CITI and was paying a bigger % of his pay just for his health cover.

NI isn't hypothecated - the money the government collects through NI is thrown into the pot with almost all other taxes. NHS & pension payments come out of general taxation.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#72
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's start a union.

I can't see how unions are good for anybody. They certainly seem to have crippled GM for a long time. If the workers force the company into unreasonable levels of benefits, it falters and they eventually lose their jobs. I'm all for fair play and sensible regulations, but if the company can't forbid the workers from quitting, I don't see how it's fair that the workers can forbid the company from hiring someone else.…

I find it sad that this comment gets downvotes, and disappointed in the HNers who did so. This comment is not trolling or pointless, but rather is well spoken and makes an excellent counter to a pro-union argument. A comment should never be buried just because you disagree with someone's values.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#73
post #7
post #2

Union knowledge workers. Outside of healthcare do they exist in the US?

Let's start a union.

Let's start a union.

And now you have two bosses and two problems. I recommend watching "Waiting For Superman" to see how the teacher's union impedes innovation in education.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#74
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand, Europeans count stat holidays, and Americans don't. A typical American gets 2 weeks of stat holidays on top of their 2 weeks of personal holidays, so that's almost the same as the European getting 4 weeks.

Erm, I've never received so little holiday, even when I worked low paid manual work. Currently I get 25 days per year not including 6 days stat, for 31 days total or just over 6 weeks total. This is considered average for London and the UK, I would consider 5 weeks to be the absolute low end in the UK. At the upper end in London the news about the Tube Drivers strike disclosed that they have 40+ days holiday, which i…

Indeed, continental Europe is a lot better than the UK. In the Netherlands holiday allowances can roll over for up to five years. My 30 days + public holidays is reasonable in the UK, and compared to the US (where I worked for four years, so have some comparison here) is heavenly.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 is the absolute minimum, and in most countries that minimum is 5. The average is more like 7 weeks.

As far as I understand, Europeans count stat holidays, and Americans don't. A typical American gets 2 weeks of stat holidays on top of their 2 weeks of personal holidays, so that's almost the same as the European getting 4 weeks.

Another data point, in Ireland, your public holidays (of which Ireland has 9 per year) are not included in your (legal minimum of) 20 days annual leave. So in total, you can get 29 paid days off.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#76
post #30
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has plenty of unions and Mercedes, BMW, Audi seem to be doing well enough You have two sides, with U.S. on one side where workers just work, with little thought for quality of life, and the other side is Europe, where they get paid a bit less, but they have 4 weeks vacation and much less demanding work load. I dunno about you, but I'd gladly sacrifice $10K(which is pretty much the whole difference between the…

That European social model is about to go bankrupt. (The American one soon thereafter, though not for lack of hard work.)

Not really. The strong economies of Europe (France & Germany), the ones that are bailing out the other countries, have the highest number of employee rights and annual days holidays. It's the examples of neoliberal 'light touch' countries (like Ireland) that need bail outs.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#77
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can quit and take time between jobs. $10K should let you backpack around Europe for about 3-6 months, which is more of a perk than Europeans get. I'm not quite sure why more people don't do this. Bank a bunch of money at a nice professional job, then quit and be funemployed for 6-12 months while they do lots of cool, life-affirming things. A bunch of my friends have done it - either backpacking around the U.S, or…

I'm not quite sure why more people don't do this It's currently pretty hard to get a job again on the other side of the vacation. Plus for most people in the USA wages are so low it's hard to even save $10K. 48% of the population are living on or below the poverty line.

I did this last year and found a new job within 3 months of coming back. (The job is incomparably better than my old job in every way.)

Plus, when your audience is the Hacker News readership it would seem to make little sense to draw conclusions based on the bottom 48% of the population.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#78
post #3

I live in Germany, and I know many engineers who work for one of the big carmakers (either directly or through some external company). Most of them are under some form of collective bargaining agreement. They have a lot of nice perks, like paid overtime (in the form of days of) and pretty good salaries. Meanwhile I work as a developer for an internet company. I've never heard of anybody working under a CBA, or any ki…

I'm a Canadian that has worked in a few large, unionized public or quasi-public workplaces as an engineer. In general hours of work, benefits (extended medical / dental) and vacation / sick leave will be better than in non-union private sector workplaces. Salaries tend to higher at the entry-level and comparable at the high end.

However, I have always found employee satisfaction and employee-management relations to be far worse in the large union workplaces.

I believe it is due to the fact that having a big, strong union that is capable of basically strong-arming the employer through the threat of job action (if you operate a nuclear power plant, having your engineers go on strike is not really an option) forces management to concede benefits they don't truly believe employees deserve, and that leads to clawbacks of, well, pretty much everything that isn't in the collective agreement. So you might get your 18 sick days (which you can never use without lying because no one who is not chronically ill gets sick for 18 working days every year), but you might have to fill out a multi-page form to get a new notebook (a paper notebook not a notebook computer).

Look at the sort of treatment that contract or temp employees get in big unionized workplaces - generally awful, and that reflects the company's true attitude toward it's employees.

I'd much rather work in a non-union workplace where I get benefits above the statutory minimums because the company truly values it's employees and understands that people who are treated well are more productive than one where everything I get was a concession to avoid labour strife.

If non-unionized company X gives 3 weeks paid vacation per year (2 weeks is the mandatory minimum in Canada) because they want to, that's much more likely to translate into a great workplace than the 4 weeks company Y gives because their employees are members of a massive national labour union and demand it.

Just my $0.02 from personal experience.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#79
post #70

How do they differentiate critical communication which should get thru? How would this work at a place like Amazon, for example? Even with 24hr staffing, there are some instances when the right person(s) are needed. Letting only messages marked as critical thru could lead to most off-hour massages categorized as important. I can see this working in some industries, but not all.

This would never work at Amazon. Fortunately for Amazon, they're not dependent on unions.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#80
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand, Europeans count stat holidays, and Americans don't. A typical American gets 2 weeks of stat holidays on top of their 2 weeks of personal holidays, so that's almost the same as the European getting 4 weeks.

Erm, I've never received so little holiday, even when I worked low paid manual work. Currently I get 25 days per year not including 6 days stat, for 31 days total or just over 6 weeks total. This is considered average for London and the UK, I would consider 5 weeks to be the absolute low end in the UK. At the upper end in London the news about the Tube Drivers strike disclosed that they have 40+ days holiday, which i…

In the 3 jobs I've had in London as a web developer, I've never started with more than 20 days (excluding the statutory ones).
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