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VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

reuters.com

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Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#31

Post by jleader »

wooyi wrote: post #21

Unions in developed countries with good labor laws don't make sense. They cater to the mediocre and the masses - and their policies go against the vien of competitiveness and innovation.

What do you think happens to "good labor laws" in the absence of unions?

An unfortunate consequence of our lobbyist-driven system is that the most effective way for people outside the 1% (actually more like the 0.1%) to get any positive attention from the government is for them to band together and hire their own lobbyists.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#32

Post by [deleted] »

heydenberk wrote: post #20
s1rech wrote: post #3

I live in Germany, and I know many engineers who work for one of the big carmakers (either directly or through some external company). Most of them are under some form of collective bargaining agreement. They have a lot of nice perks, like paid overtime (in the form of days of) and pretty good salaries. Meanwhile I work as a developer for an internet company. I've never heard of anybody working under a CBA, or any ki…

"extreme cases, like working on sundays" Oh, Germany.

[deleted]

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#33

Post by gojomo »

nostrademons wrote: post #19
vaksel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has plenty of unions and Mercedes, BMW, Audi seem to be doing well enough You have two sides, with U.S. on one side where workers just work, with little thought for quality of life, and the other side is Europe, where they get paid a bit less, but they have 4 weeks vacation and much less demanding work load. I dunno about you, but I'd gladly sacrifice $10K(which is pretty much the whole difference between the…

You can quit and take time between jobs. $10K should let you backpack around Europe for about 3-6 months, which is more of a perk than Europeans get. I'm not quite sure why more people don't do this. Bank a bunch of money at a nice professional job, then quit and be funemployed for 6-12 months while they do lots of cool, life-affirming things. A bunch of my friends have done it - either backpacking around the U.S, or…

I've heard this called "serial balancing" among startuppers, in this old piece and a more recent one I can't find the link for at the moment:

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/10/27/jobs/in-high-technology-th...

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#34

Post by _delirium »

Duff wrote: post #25
zbuc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's start a union.

That solves problems and creates problems. Many things that are decided today based upon merit or by management discretion become tenure based. That is good and bad. The good: - Your contract will require things to be done in a fair and equitable way, per the contract. - Your pay will be more predictable. - Benefits will probably be better. - You will have an advocate in the event of a dispute. The bad: - Your contra…

The main "good" bullet point that I think we're missing in tech isn't so much the pay as some sort of collective advocacy on onerous contract provisions. If you're very much in demand, you can cross out parts of your employment contract individually, but it's often hard to individually negotiate those kinds of variances, while lots of people negotiating together could probably get a more reasonable deal.

The alternative is to negotiate really collectively at the government level and outright ban the onerous contract provisions, like California's done with many forms of noncompetes.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#35

Post by mjwalshe »

heydenberk wrote: post #20
s1rech wrote: post #3

I live in Germany, and I know many engineers who work for one of the big carmakers (either directly or through some external company). Most of them are under some form of collective bargaining agreement. They have a lot of nice perks, like paid overtime (in the form of days of) and pretty good salaries. Meanwhile I work as a developer for an internet company. I've never heard of anybody working under a CBA, or any ki…

"extreme cases, like working on sundays" Oh, Germany.

Lol though anyone who called themselves an engineer would be on a non fixed hours contract any how - its part of the whole profession vs the grunts on the production line.

And I bet the demarcation lines in engineering grades are enforced rigidly in Germany.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#36

Post by billybob »

zbuc wrote: post #7
mchanson wrote: post #2

Union knowledge workers. Outside of healthcare do they exist in the US?

Let's start a union.

I can't see how unions are good for anybody. They certainly seem to have crippled GM for a long time. If the workers force the company into unreasonable levels of benefits, it falters and they eventually lose their jobs.

I'm all for fair play and sensible regulations, but if the company can't forbid the workers from quitting, I don't see how it's fair that the workers can forbid the company from hiring someone else.

I much prefer being on my own for negotiations. I intend to be one of the best workers; why tie my fate to the average? And why tie the company to me if they can find a better employee?

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#37

Post by vaksel »

nostrademons wrote: post #19
vaksel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has plenty of unions and Mercedes, BMW, Audi seem to be doing well enough You have two sides, with U.S. on one side where workers just work, with little thought for quality of life, and the other side is Europe, where they get paid a bit less, but they have 4 weeks vacation and much less demanding work load. I dunno about you, but I'd gladly sacrifice $10K(which is pretty much the whole difference between the…

You can quit and take time between jobs. $10K should let you backpack around Europe for about 3-6 months, which is more of a perk than Europeans get. I'm not quite sure why more people don't do this. Bank a bunch of money at a nice professional job, then quit and be funemployed for 6-12 months while they do lots of cool, life-affirming things. A bunch of my friends have done it - either backpacking around the U.S, or…

there is no job security with that, way too stressful for most people...if it's official vacation, it'll actually be a vacation to enjoy

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#38

Post by mjwalshe »

nostrademons wrote: post #19
vaksel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has plenty of unions and Mercedes, BMW, Audi seem to be doing well enough You have two sides, with U.S. on one side where workers just work, with little thought for quality of life, and the other side is Europe, where they get paid a bit less, but they have 4 weeks vacation and much less demanding work load. I dunno about you, but I'd gladly sacrifice $10K(which is pretty much the whole difference between the…

You can quit and take time between jobs. $10K should let you backpack around Europe for about 3-6 months, which is more of a perk than Europeans get. I'm not quite sure why more people don't do this. Bank a bunch of money at a nice professional job, then quit and be funemployed for 6-12 months while they do lots of cool, life-affirming things. A bunch of my friends have done it - either backpacking around the U.S, or…

Really tried contact some one in France in August have we?

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#39

Post by mjwalshe »

vaksel wrote: post #12
[deleted] wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Germany has plenty of unions and Mercedes, BMW, Audi seem to be doing well enough You have two sides, with U.S. on one side where workers just work, with little thought for quality of life, and the other side is Europe, where they get paid a bit less, but they have 4 weeks vacation and much less demanding work load. I dunno about you, but I'd gladly sacrifice $10K(which is pretty much the whole difference between the…

When you consider that in the UK NI is 11/12% and that covers the NHS and your state pension plus SERPS (second state pension) and unemployment benefits.

I knew a guy who emigrated to the USA and was working for CITI and was paying a bigger % of his pay just for his health cover.

Re: VW deactivates employee email outside working hours

#40

Post by masmullin »

nknight wrote: post #16
yock wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor planning on someone else's part doesn't make an emergency in my part. I've always hated this statement. I can understand, to some extent, not bailing out those who are habitually poorly prepared, but how can you justify not bailing someone out if it's what's best for your company?

Why should I be more concerned about what's best for an abstract concept than what's best for me?

Because the abstract concept pays your mortgage.
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