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Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

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Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#61

Post by adql »

matkoniecz wrote: post #16

Remind me about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_banknote_demonetis... > On 8 November 2016, the Government of India announced the demonetisation of all ₹500 and ₹1,000 banknotes > Several people were reported to have died from standing in queues for hours to exchange their demonetised banknotes.[180][181][182][183][184][185] Deaths were also attributed to lack of medical help due to refusal of demonetised b…

For comparison, in Poland the "old" and "new" functioned for 2 years.

After 2 years it was not legal to pay with them but you could still exchange them in national bank...

...for next 14 years

It's just WTF.

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#62

Post by snapcaster »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #55
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #13

Cashless societies terrify me. So easy to control people when you can decide what and with whom they can transact with.

So easy to control people when you can decide what and with whom they can transact with. Surprise! Your bank and credit card company can do that now. As being proposed in the USA, a CBDC will only affect settlement transactions between banks. Everything else will stay exactly the way it is now except transactions will be much faster with settlements taking place in real time, 24/7/365 instead of only during "bankers…

But we currently have the option to bypass those restrictions if we want. Isn't it concerning that these systems might become more or less "mandatory" at some point?

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#63

Post by xiphias2 »

chii wrote: post #26
matkoniecz wrote: post #16

Remind me about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_banknote_demonetis... > On 8 November 2016, the Government of India announced the demonetisation of all ₹500 and ₹1,000 banknotes > Several people were reported to have died from standing in queues for hours to exchange their demonetised banknotes.[180][181][182][183][184][185] Deaths were also attributed to lack of medical help due to refusal of demonetised b…

> So if someone missed this 17 days this sort of shit is what makes a gov't a low trust gov't. It exacerbates the informal economy - people would not want to pay taxes to fund such a govt, because they don't see that the gov't is running with their interest in mind (despite india being a so called democracy). It was a poorly thought-out policy.

> It was a poorly thought-out policy

It was robbing people. Poorly thought out policy is an expression for people with good intentions, I just don't believe in that when it comes to the Indian government.

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#64

Post by rattlesnakedave »

I like CBDCs, and I’m a big privacy guy generally. I really do not see them as being significantly worse than the status quo of digital payments. For every horrifying what-if mentioned there’s already an example of it in our current system (in the US, at least). If having them means I don’t have to deal with ACH again, I’m all for it.

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#65

Post by 1letterunixname »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #13

Cashless societies terrify me. So easy to control people when you can decide what and with whom they can transact with.

Yep. China is a prime example. If you don't have access to a handful of apps, you're effectively unable to eat or do anything else.

Elsewhere, when a business touts itself as cashless, I consider if they're discouraging armed robbery and/or hostile to the unbanked.

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#66

Post by 1letterunixname »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #55
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #13

Cashless societies terrify me. So easy to control people when you can decide what and with whom they can transact with.

So easy to control people when you can decide what and with whom they can transact with. Surprise! Your bank and credit card company can do that now. As being proposed in the USA, a CBDC will only affect settlement transactions between banks. Everything else will stay exactly the way it is now except transactions will be much faster with settlements taking place in real time, 24/7/365 instead of only during "bankers…

The fun is when, in the US, a customer needs access to a large amount of liquidity, they may or may not receive it, depending on the nature of their bank, their credit, and their relationship with their bank... beyond whether or not they have sufficient funds or not. "Daily withdrawal limits" (not just cash).

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#67

Post by JumpCrisscross »

India closely guards the rupee to prevent foreign exchange crises. A free CBDC challenges that regime because it lets anyone, anywhere, exchange rupees. So expect the sort of controls that would let New Delhi restrict that sort of activity, and then project that power domestically.

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#69

Post by manojlds »

adql wrote: post #61
matkoniecz wrote: post #16

Remind me about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_banknote_demonetis... > On 8 November 2016, the Government of India announced the demonetisation of all ₹500 and ₹1,000 banknotes > Several people were reported to have died from standing in queues for hours to exchange their demonetised banknotes.[180][181][182][183][184][185] Deaths were also attributed to lack of medical help due to refusal of demonetised b…

For comparison, in Poland the "old" and "new" functioned for 2 years. After 2 years it was not legal to pay with them but you could still exchange them in national bank... ...for next 14 years It's just WTF.

Same in India for most cases when taking out old notes in circulation etc

This particular demonitisation was done as a shock move to ostensibly catch corruption, black money etc.

It was lauded and welcome when it was announced, including by yours truly.

It was quickly seen as a poor execution by most except the ardent supporters (which doesn't include me)

I am sure most in the govt would secretly agree it was a bad move.

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#70

Post by nisegami »

alkonaut wrote: post #43
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the kicker; I don't believe there's any government that wants anonymous digital cash. If anything, they want to be the only ones that can track it.

Now you are assuming that "governments" and "citizens" are two disjoint groups with different agendas. That's a really bleak way of looking at it, at least in functioning democracies. I'd certainly protest loudly if some sort of anonymity wasn't part of the plan at every step. I was happy to see at least some footnotes from a recent pilot CDBC mentioning this. https://www.riksbank.se/globalassets/media/rapporter/e-kr…

>Now you are assuming that "governments" and "citizens" are two disjoint groups with different agendas.

They are.

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