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Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

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Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#31

Post by danuker »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #19
matkoniecz wrote: post #16

Remind me about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_banknote_demonetis... > On 8 November 2016, the Government of India announced the demonetisation of all ₹500 and ₹1,000 banknotes > Several people were reported to have died from standing in queues for hours to exchange their demonetised banknotes.[180][181][182][183][184][185] Deaths were also attributed to lack of medical help due to refusal of demonetised b…

They only had 17 days? That's ridiculous; normally they would just stop printing them and have them be taken out of rotation in a natural fashion (e.g. bank deposits, but that assumes cash is eventually deposited and converted to a number in a bank account).

That is how you realize the intent is to oppress senselessly, not just oppress.

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#32

Post by themoonisachees »

blackoil wrote: post #20
ssivark wrote: post #9

Meh. The article expends zero effort in actually engaging with the Reserve Bank of India's motivations or the CBDC design [1], and is filled with shallow comments about the roll-out in other countries. This is a very important topic as it has the potential to reshape banking/economics on the timescale of decades. For a good down-to-earth understanding of "layer 1" -vs- "layer 2" money, refer the following post [2]. I…

Paper money is a small percentage of total money, and a much smaller percentage in terms of actual transactions. Most of the money is already digital.

Isn't that highly affected by how much money rich people (ie users of digital money) have? One whould think paper money still is used by a good 50% of the worlds poorest, but they can't hold a candle to the amount hedge funds, banks and simply normal people from western countries move around compared to them.

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#33

Post by whywhywhywhy »

m4rtink wrote: post #15
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #13

Cashless societies terrify me. So easy to control people when you can decide what and with whom they can transact with.

Well, with most salaries going to bank accounts it's half way there already, isn't it ?

CDBC is way beyond that, it allows things like if someone has taken too many flights that year, bought too much sugar or alcohol that month you could make the offending purchases or all their purchases more expensive to penalize them. Or you know if they had a bad social credit score, too bad now your morning coffee costs 1.5X of the person next to you, maybe reconsider your actions.

Few reasons to implement this stuff unless that's your endgame.

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#34

Post by matkoniecz »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #19
matkoniecz wrote: post #16

Remind me about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_banknote_demonetis... > On 8 November 2016, the Government of India announced the demonetisation of all ₹500 and ₹1,000 banknotes > Several people were reported to have died from standing in queues for hours to exchange their demonetised banknotes.[180][181][182][183][184][185] Deaths were also attributed to lack of medical help due to refusal of demonetised b…

They only had 17 days? That's ridiculous; normally they would just stop printing them and have them be taken out of rotation in a natural fashion (e.g. bank deposits, but that assumes cash is eventually deposited and converted to a number in a bank account).

> They only had 17 days?

Yes. Unless this Wikipedia page is horrifyingly misleading.

But this alone would ensure that I would keep all my funds into something more trustworthy. Even freaking Bitcoin starts to be a sane solution, to say nothing about dollars/euro/gold.

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#35

Post by matkoniecz »

chii wrote: post #26
matkoniecz wrote: post #16

Remind me about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_banknote_demonetis... > On 8 November 2016, the Government of India announced the demonetisation of all ₹500 and ₹1,000 banknotes > Several people were reported to have died from standing in queues for hours to exchange their demonetised banknotes.[180][181][182][183][184][185] Deaths were also attributed to lack of medical help due to refusal of demonetised b…

> So if someone missed this 17 days this sort of shit is what makes a gov't a low trust gov't. It exacerbates the informal economy - people would not want to pay taxes to fund such a govt, because they don't see that the gov't is running with their interest in mind (despite india being a so called democracy). It was a poorly thought-out policy.

> people would not want to pay taxes to fund such a govt

that reminds me about another gem:

> The use of demonetised banknotes was allowed for the payment of municipal and local civic body taxes, leading to a jump in their revenue collections.

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#36

Post by lottin »

fab1an wrote: post #12

It's surprising to see that there are liberal proponents of this. You don't have to be a raging libertarian to see the risks of unlocking this much financial reach for governments. We (in the West) may now mostly live under reasonable governments, but there's obviously no guarantee that this won't change (including towards your ), and implementing social credit score systems and other dystopian things would be much e…

Do you realise that some of the people behind CBDCs are Bitcoin developers?

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#38

Post by influxmoment »

lottin wrote: post #36
fab1an wrote: post #12

It's surprising to see that there are liberal proponents of this. You don't have to be a raging libertarian to see the risks of unlocking this much financial reach for governments. We (in the West) may now mostly live under reasonable governments, but there's obviously no guarantee that this won't change (including towards your ), and implementing social credit score systems and other dystopian things would be much e…

Do you realise that some of the people behind CBDCs are Bitcoin developers?

They get money to make some software but clearly aren't proponents of a totalitarian system

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#39

Post by gokuldas011011 »

blackoil wrote: post #20
ssivark wrote: post #9

Meh. The article expends zero effort in actually engaging with the Reserve Bank of India's motivations or the CBDC design [1], and is filled with shallow comments about the roll-out in other countries. This is a very important topic as it has the potential to reshape banking/economics on the timescale of decades. For a good down-to-earth understanding of "layer 1" -vs- "layer 2" money, refer the following post [2]. I…

Paper money is a small percentage of total money, and a much smaller percentage in terms of actual transactions. Most of the money is already digital.

Isn't all money still paper behind the scenes, where the banks transfer to one another

Re: Nobody’s using CBDCs – India’s piloting one anyway

#40

Post by danbruc »

LearnProg17 wrote: post #30
danbruc wrote: post #24

Build the following and I will use it. - value pegged to some existing currency - unforgeable and easily verifiable, preferably offline - non-traceable, just like coins or banknotes without a serial number - usable offline and without third parties, just like handing over physical money

Non-traceablity defeats the purpose of a currency. Might as well trade in gold. For most transactions, physical money isn't really needed nor convenient.

Why does non-traceablity defeat the purpose of a currency? While physical money - besides the coins - is tracable in theory, this seems to be only used to limited extend. Nowadays it would not be to hard to do automatically but it would have been impractical to do at scale a few decades back. And even today you could not obtain a trace without gaps even if you wanted to.
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