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Software horror show: SAP Concur

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Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#181

Post by Phelinofist »

My previous job was to develop POS software that was marketed by SAP (we were a SAP gold or platinum partner - can't remember which). The POS software did not include the part that actually runs on the POS but also all the backend stuff like order management, inventory management, etc. So we were forced to use the crude SAP XML interfaces for data exchange (IDOCS) and it was really disgusting. We were also forced to use SAP NetWeaver which is a PITA to manage. Also, the customer decided to use POWER9 so we were also forced to use the SAP-maintained port of the JDK for POWER9 and we have found like 4 or 5 bugs in this port. Also, being a SAP partner, we were forced to use UI5 which is such a horrible framework.

But the thing is, SAP is a freakin' huge company and the software is quite old. They are on the right track to make things better (XSA, other data exchange format).

Another funny story is that some customers decided to host their system at SAP. The SAP department (SAP HEC iirc) that took care of updates of the systems planned with 14h per system per update - complete downtime. One customer had 3 systems at SAP, which meant that it took three Sundays until all systems were updated. Since then, most moved to OEDIV for hosting which does a slightly better job.

SAP HANA (the DB) is quite cool though. We had one with 4TB RAM and it was super fast.

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#182

Post by psidium »

cesarb wrote: post #65

I can see another issue in that list: for half of the entries, it displays the state but not the country, and for the other half, it displays the country but not the state (or its local equivalent). Given that there are things like cities with the same name but within different states in the same country (a quick web search tells me that, in my country, there are many cities like that), and even states named identica…

aquilo ali varia se o teu usuário é daquele país ou não. é uma cidade do meu país? cidade, estado. É de outro país? cidade, PAÍS.

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#183

Post by [deleted] »

deely3 wrote: post #66
Aloha wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We used Excel based expense reporting for years, it takes me much less time to assemble my reports on concur, I rather like it, its the least of all evils.

Could it be that by using Excel you just move complexity of reporting to someone who have to extract these data from Excel and import it into some system or analyze it?

[deleted]

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#184

Post by rvba »

hestefisk wrote: post #115
rvba wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work in consulting and you think you deliver good stuff, you are either incredibly lucky (lottery winner level), or you are so incompetent that you dont know you deliver utter crap. What is your definition of getting the job done? 50% of projects run by consultants fail. Seriously this level of smug shows how clueless you are.

What’s your source of the 50% fail rate?

I worked in few consulting firms and know the internal stats.

For ERP impelmentations, failure rate is even more than 50%. Gartner says it is 55% to 75%.

For digital transformations I think the stats are closer to 50%, but it more depends on the company and their project scope. Maybe the poster above makes some small landing pages for micro companies.

For greenfield projects made by agencies "it depends" but usually quality is utter crap. The project "works" but no change is possible easily, so at the end of the day the projects are failures.

https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/mx/Documents/...

https://www.pemeco.com/two-big-reasons-erp-implementation-fa...

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/gartner-75-all-erp-projects-f...

https://venturebeat.com/business/report-orgs-wasted-4-12m-on...?

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#185

Post by rgblambda »

kypro wrote: post #80
thefourthchime wrote: post #6

As the author mentions. This was a failure on and down the chain, from QA to PMs. When I see software like this, it reeks to me of contractor work. We hire them to handle something that we don’t have time for our core team, and or something not very important. The result is the devs do a minimal job to get paid. QA doesn’t care and the PMs either didn’t see it, or have bigger fish to fry.

When you say "contractor work", do you mean agencies, or the work of individual contractors? Individual contractors in my experience tend to be very good (above average) and do care about building quality software - their reputations depend on it. Agencies on the other hand are a nightmare. I have nothing against junior devs but in my experience agencies love to put junior devs on projects they're unqualified for and…

Having once been a junior dev at an agency, I can confirm most of what you're saying. I would add that the strongest advocates for cutting corners tend to be leadership and management, who have been through this before and know that as soon as they can get the client to agree that release 1 is done, the rest is the support team's problem.

I find the quality of individual contractors can vary massively. Some are brilliant while others are borderline useless with behavioural problems to boot, yet somehow aren't being fired.

One argument I'll always make in defence of agencies/contractors is that a lot of problems stem from the fact that the client is often not engaged and believes that because they hired you, there's no effort required on their end.

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#186

Post by qubex »

jojobas wrote: post #127
coliveira wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing cheap about SAP. It is just the opposite. They sell the most expensive software ever for any given need. But they make sure to promise their victims that the software covers any possible business "need" under the sun, so the CTOs feel coerced to pay the hefty price.

SAP = sucks all profit.

Satan’s Accounting Package

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#188

Post by Aloha »

deely3 wrote: post #66
Aloha wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We used Excel based expense reporting for years, it takes me much less time to assemble my reports on concur, I rather like it, its the least of all evils.

Could it be that by using Excel you just move complexity of reporting to someone who have to extract these data from Excel and import it into some system or analyze it?

I still had to -

A) Scan everything

B) figure out what portion of it needed expensed

C) Fill out expense form

D) send to my manager for approval

After it was sent off, Accounting might just decide to not pay it because no receipt for the coin-op laundry machine I used, when I pointed out it was coin-op laundry, they just shrugged, and then approved it. Meanwhile, while they dicker I'm sitting on multiple thousands of dollars of expenses.

Other issues were making sure I had the correct form, multiple approvals, etc. Now before this process, we used all the same forms but printed out.

Using Concur -

A) the the app to scan my receipts

B) attach receipts to company card expenses

C) deal with some drop downs for some stuff concur has flagged out of process

D) send to manager

Now I lost my per-diem in this, but they cover everything now with the exception of tips to the housekeeper (I've just not tried it yet).

The downside is any payments from the company now take multiple weeks, lol.

Using the excel process, would take me about 1-1.5 hours per week of travel, under Concur its about a about .5-.75 hours per week of travel.

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#189

Post by kjellsbells »

stainforth wrote: post #159
kjellsbells wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinion: SAP focused on the buyer, not the user. I see this in technical software sales all the time: vendors have an X, so they target the team that might X or currently use the inferior Y when they could be using X. But in reality, those people are rarely if ever the buyer, as in, the person who has the budget and the authority to actually issue a PO. In the size of company that uses an ERP, that person is not goin…

Why can't leadership in a company just do the right thing in making decisions that make the company better?

What does better really mean, though? For the CFO, a SAP implementation solves multi-million dollar problems in inventory, sales taxation, expense management, compliance, etc. That is "better" for their organization. If it comes with a slighty cruddy travel and expense system, oh well. That piece probably represents like 1% of the deal value.

Enterprise sales at this level requires a deep understanding of what the buyer values in your product, not what you think is valuable. I dont claim that SAP delivers on these claims (ie I'm not carrying water for them) but they are good at hitting this button.

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#190

Post by hef19898 »

coliveira wrote: post #92
intelVISA wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people buying the software don't have to use it, would you buy your corporate underlings the comfortable, expensive shoes or just enough rags to painfully remind them who their masters are? SAP produce the lowest cost rags in town, and you will learn to love them.

There's nothing cheap about SAP. It is just the opposite. They sell the most expensive software ever for any given need. But they make sure to promise their victims that the software covers any possible business "need" under the sun, so the CTOs feel coerced to pay the hefty price.

SAP, at its core, is an ERP system. Those, in turn, run around MRP (Material Requirements Planning), all in xompliant and auditable manner (if used properly, that is). There is a reason why ERP systems rule the manufacturing world, and SAP rules ERP systems. All the chatter about CTOs going golfing with some SAP sales rep not withstanding, SAP is a very solid system and used by very sophisticated folks (ideally, if not, well, you cannot blame Red Bulls latest Formula 1 car if I crash it in turn one).

So, if you are a manufacturing business, MRP is a must and SAP an expensive but solid choice. If you are not, and thus don't need MRP and ERP, well, you wouldn't use a semi truck for your weekly groccery shopping neither.

People who only look at the UI, and then not even the UI of the core funtionality of an ERP system, and then dump on, e.g. SAP (all ERPs are the dame but different in that regard), just show that they have zero clue what those ERPs are supposed to do and how they are supposed to be used.

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