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Software horror show: SAP Concur

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131–140 of 204 posts

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#131

So the near universal consensus from the technical community is that SAP makes crap software. Yet here we are obsessing over monads while they laugh all the way to the bank. So what’s the lesson? Maybe good software is a waste of time and smart money just focuses on the marketing. Unfortunately that’s what I’ve seen over many years.

Opinion: SAP focused on the buyer, not the user. I see this in technical software sales all the time: vendors have an X, so they target the team that might X or currently use the inferior Y when they could be using X.

But in reality, those people are rarely if ever the buyer, as in, the person who has the budget and the authority to actually issue a PO. In the size of company that uses an ERP, that person is not going to be Raj in Accounting who likes your webified TrelloAsana travel and expense dashboard, or Sara in IT who enjoyed your demo of the JSON export to PowerBI. Its going to be a committee of Finance EVPs who give a final thumbs up to the CFO to write the check.

The other part to this story is that at this level, SAP (and peers) are using highly skilled partners as force multipliers to sell. I can honestly say after years in technology that I have never actually seen a SAP employee so to me. But I have seen a boatload of folks from Accenture and Deloitte and Tech Mahindra try to sell digital ERP transformation via a $$$$ contract that used SAP in the tech stack.

In short, SAP doesnt need to be the best. It just needs to win the CFO and make partners money.

This is one reason why SAP wins.

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#132
People who understand and complain about these issues usually don't work for these products as these are not critical systems for a company to function.

They serve 2 main purposes.

- Have some process in place to get things done. Speed is not important. - Provide livelihood for hundreds and thousands of average developer ecosystems/SIs. They work hard to keep them alive.

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#133
You have to remember why companies buy from the likes of SAP: compliance.

That’s the one thing that SAP excels in.

Sadly this means that usability falls by the wayside. And while SAP‘s user interfaces are exceptionally bad, their competitors do not exactly prioritise ease of use either.

In this case a subpar user experience is combined with an immature technology stack. SAP infamously stopped supporting 3rd party databases and now require their customers to use the in house HANA database instead. Problem is that HANA is not a great database. Painfully slow and lacks features. In this case, pre-sorted result sets.

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#134

At my old job, I was jealous of people at other companies who got to use Concur. Whatever Concur's flaws may be, the system we had was obviously worse. "Wow, you take a photo with your phone and it goes in an app? Wish we had an app. Instead I have to submit it on a website, print the cover page as a PDF, collect all my receipts as further PDFs, merge the PDFs, and then send them via email with a single PDF attachmen…

At one of my two career employers, to create an electronic deposit for your paychecks you had to:

1. Email payroll asking for the right form (an excel sheet would arrive via email)

2. fill out that excel sheet that had no validation at all, just formatting. you enter your bank info, amount, etc. If you needed more lines, you had to "attach another sheet".

3. Then you printed that,

4. signed it,

5. scanned it, and

6. emailed it to payroll@the_company,

7. who would call you and tell you what you did wrong, and then

8. they'd just do what you said over the phone anyway.

Yes, the excel sheet existed for no reason other than to align your typed text on the resulting printed page properly. It of course had giant "Do not edit any cells" on the top in red.

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#135
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to call a sort function. It can happen in the client, because the data set is small. It should have happened when the app was first written, at which time they weren’t maintaining legacy code - they were writing a UI from scratch and could make changes easily. Sort functions are built in to every programming language I’ve ever used. I agree with the author. There’s no reason for it to be like this but incom…

I used to work in a system where seemingly trivial sort()s would break the entire stack. It is entirely plausible that a sort is nontrivial.

In 30 years of programming I've worked in plenty of systems where this sort of thing is nontrivial too. But its always the result of incompetent abstractions getting in the programmer's way.

Downvotes notwithstanding, I stand by my claim that this is always the result of incompetence. Either at the small level (laziness) or at a larger scale (incompetent system design).

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#136
post #68
post #41

Concur's backend is typical of a slow moving industry that works with old awkward systems like airlines. It's a shitshow of business logic and 20 year old legacy code that would be a long expensive nightmare to rewrite for little actual profit so no manager would ever approve of such an endeavor. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a mess of queries involved with this search such that trying to do a real sort of the…

It’s also very possible this list is configured by the IT department that purchased Concur. If this list is always set by purchaser configuration, not sorting kind of makes.

You are probably right. I've just tried same query ("los a") in Concur app and it was sorted alphabetically for me. Still included Spain and Chile locations though.

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#137
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't even know how to rationalize this anymore. Enterprise IT is like that because the buyer never uses it and often assumes anyone complaining is just whiny/lazy. A previous employer had a massive outage with an expensive ’Orrible reporting application: down for weeks, developers expecting them to repair corrupted data, etc. They paid many millions of dollars to license that app and millions more for “support”,…

The goal of whoever chooses the ERP software is to have people make fewer decisions. Whether it takes you 5 or 15 seconds to figure out what to do next/record what you've done is of much lesser importance than what to do next/how what you've done is processed. Sure the UI could be improved, but https://xkcd.com/937/ rule still applies.

That's one facet of such software. But another facet, and by far the largest by ongoing expense (as in amount of people-hours it consumes) is just data input, with little to no decisions to be made. In SAP Concur case, one example I painfully experience is reimbursing business trips. In other cases, this may be timesheets, or inventory, or point-of-sale ordering and invoicing.

The "UI could be improved" is really understating it here - there are low-hanging fruits that could cut down the time spent on data input by factor of 5-10x. This I know for a fact, because I can compare my own experience (e.g. various timesheet & expense forms I used over the years, and the hypothetical case of me preparing the report in Emacs in some structured format, and bulk-importing it to a tool - that's easily a 20x time save), or observation (POS software used in stores today, vs. the DOS-era tools they used just a decade ago - close to 10x the difference).

We're talking extreme waste of money here. Plenty of shops I've seen are bottlenecked on the POS software UI - meaning they either have to let X% of customers go, or support extra registers and personnel. We're talking mental blocks that make people redefine workflows - every place I worked in that required timesheets and expense reports would see people doing them weekly, monthly, or quarterly, instead of daily (as they're supposed to), because the UI is such a time waster that everyone wants to put it off until HR starts complaining, and then back-fill it in bulk. And don't get me started on how shitty UI in healthcare impacts the quality of care...

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#138

We actually joke around the area where SAP is located (Walldorf, Germany). In surrounding cities devs joke about the fact that there are literally dozens if not hundreds of web agencies doing nothing more than mobile/tablet ready SAP user interfaces. That's their only business model. I'm not kidding you, there's an entire ecosystem around the fact that SAP UI5 is so crap that people cannot use it on their smartphones…

> doing nothing more than mobile/tablet ready SAP user interfaces

As a user, a user interface is literally all I care about, so this seems great to me.

Re: Software horror show: SAP Concur

#140

My favorite fight search tool was hipmunk. Their 'agony' sort was my favorite feature in any software ever. SAP bought them, and I was so hopeful that Concur would bake this into their god awful app that I had to use for work. No luck. RIP Hipmunk.

What is "agony sort"?
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