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Emergency declared and curfew imposed following North Carolina power grid attack

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Re: Emergency declared and curfew imposed following North Carolina power grid attack

#71

Post by masterjack »

spoils19 wrote: post #64
jrm4 wrote: post #58

Kind of surprising to not see the words "domestic terrorism" here, so let me be the first? This very well could be domestic terrorism and for now it would be prudent to treat it as such.

I think we should wait before labeling what could just be economically anxious Americans exercising their right to free speech.

Shooting up and destroying key infrastructure for a town leaving many without power sounds a lot more like domestic terrorism than free speech, especially if it is in response to a small number of adults having an event you disagree with.

Re: Emergency declared and curfew imposed following North Carolina power grid attack

#72

Post by gonzo41 »

jrm4 wrote: post #58

Kind of surprising to not see the words "domestic terrorism" here, so let me be the first? This very well could be domestic terrorism and for now it would be prudent to treat it as such.

No post body was provided.

Re: Emergency declared and curfew imposed following North Carolina power grid attack

#73

Post by cesarb »

ckdarby wrote: post #38
rch wrote: post #22

I wonder how well stocked the U.S. is with replacement inventory for facilities like this.

It isn't the replacing part that is the problem, but the rebooting part that is the larger worry.

If it's just a couple of local substations, "rebooting" is AFAIK not very hard. First the substation is connected to other substations by closing the breakers on each high-voltage circuit between them, one by one; this energizes the transformers in the substation. Then the breakers to the outgoing feeders are closed one by one, which sends power to the loads. There might also be some maneuvering far from the substation to move loads from one substation to another.

What's hard is when the outage is also on the generation side; "rebooting" from a full outage (black start) can be a complex dance between starting generators, connecting substations, and energizing loads, since generation has to be matched to consumption at all times, and nearly all generators need power themselves to run (on a full black start, small diesel generators, started by even smaller batteries, are the initial point).

Re: Emergency declared and curfew imposed following North Carolina power grid attack

#74

Post by DiggyJohnson »

tapper wrote: post #67

They don't like to use the words "domestic terrorism" when the people who did it are white.

It’s being called an “attack”. Do those not mean essentially the same thing? Are there instances of minorities attacking the power grid that are readily labeled “domestic terrorism”? This seems like an overconfident and overly dismissive point, in my opinion. You’re making an instance of an attack/domestic terrorism on the American power grid a racial rhetoric topic, instead of focusing on the actual thing itself. Seems weird to me.

Re: Emergency declared and curfew imposed following North Carolina power grid attack

#75

Post by ckdarby »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #59
ckdarby wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't the replacing part that is the problem, but the rebooting part that is the larger worry.

No, it's both. You need to do research that will show you just how long the lead times are for transformer equipment and supplies. Oh, and those lead times are still getting longer .

Yes, it is both.

I do ask for you to reflect back on covid.

Remember when trying to make a vaccine was 5-10 years, but when an entire country/world makes something a priority and become hyper focused and motivated they'll 10x output.

The problem is when regardless of input you can't speed up the output. Think of a pregnancy, adding more pregnant women doesn't speed up the process, and consuming more inputs doesn't speed up the progress.

The electrical grid is nearly a "living entity". It isn't exactly like even if all the replacements magically appeared the problem is solved by a long shot.

Re: Emergency declared and curfew imposed following North Carolina power grid attack

#76

Post by kasey_junk »

masterjack wrote: post #71
spoils19 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should wait before labeling what could just be economically anxious Americans exercising their right to free speech.

Shooting up and destroying key infrastructure for a town leaving many without power sounds a lot more like domestic terrorism than free speech, especially if it is in response to a small number of adults having an event you disagree with.

It was sarcasm

Re: Emergency declared and curfew imposed following North Carolina power grid attack

#77

Post by ceejayoz »

masterjack wrote: post #71
spoils19 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should wait before labeling what could just be economically anxious Americans exercising their right to free speech.

Shooting up and destroying key infrastructure for a town leaving many without power sounds a lot more like domestic terrorism than free speech, especially if it is in response to a small number of adults having an event you disagree with.

I think you've missed the sarcasm.

"Economic anxiety" has been used for a while by news organizations unwilling to say "racism" or "bigotry".

Re: Emergency declared and curfew imposed following North Carolina power grid attack

#78

Post by ceejayoz »

autoexec wrote: post #50
f38zf5vdt wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FBI is investigating after a right wing extremist appeared to take responsibility for the attack, with the intention of disrupting a local transgender event. [1] https://twitter.com/Esqueer_/status/1599464591196491777?cxt=...

Not a "transgender event", just a drag show

That's a distinction likely lost on the perpetrators.

Re: Emergency declared and curfew imposed following North Carolina power grid attack

#79

Post by anigbrowl »

rtkwe wrote: post #55
jeffbee wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On NPR Marketplace recently there was a utility-size transformer maker interviewed who said their current lead time was well over a year. https://www.marketplace.org/2022/11/14/a-shortage-of-electri...

That's for new orders not an indication of replacement depth held by the utility companies though. Also in an emergency orders could be redirected to companies that need them unless it's a country-wide damaging event.

Right, but power companies likely hold enough for a year's worth of natural disasters + a 10-20% cushion. Sabotage can be a lot more destructive than random failure.

Re: Emergency declared and curfew imposed following North Carolina power grid attack

#80

Post by SoftTalker »

pixl97 wrote: post #62
tamaharbor wrote: post #34

In west Texas, vandals use power transformer bushings for target practice all the time.

Which is a lot different from dumping a mag into one of the expensive and hard to replace components at a substation, then driving around to another substation and doing the same thing again. The large oil filled transformers get really expensive really fast.

I mean, it sounds like something that drunk or just stupid kids might do. Like smashing mailboxes, but scaled up.
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