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PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

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Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#281

Post by paulcole »

waste_monk wrote: post #278
paulcole wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t eat meat, I’ve never driven a car, I don’t fly in airplanes, I don’t have kids, and I live in a tiny apartment. How many of those are true for you? I’ll allow myself the planet-killing indulgence of the jacket — which pales in comparison to those other steps I’ve taken. Plus, I have a chronic illness that will already likely significantly shorten my life anyway. I’m not too worried about the health effects of…

If humanity up and disappeared tomorrow, most of the environmental damage from cars, overpopulation, etc. would sort itself out in a couple of hundred years. PFAS, however, are extremely chemically stable and some of them will still be around in 1,000+ years time. They also bioaccumulate, and biomagnification occurs in predators (similar to mercury). It is a massive problem and the repercussions will be with us for a…

If humanity goes away, I don’t particularly care about what happens to the environment — because that is a stupid hypothetical.

And if you think your energy on environmental consciousness is best spent on getting me to care about jackets, good luck.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#282

Post by s0rce »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #222
s0rce wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is more in manufacturing and disposal not use. Don't overheat your pan and you are fine. The garments also used PFAS based coatings for water repellent coatings which are also bad.

Don’t overheat the pan you use to cook food with heat?

That's correct, best used for more gentle cooking like eggs and fish that really stick and not high heat searing. Can withstand normal levels of heat but higher heat can degrade the PTFE coating and release harmful chemicals. Don't heat the pan too much with nothing in it.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#283

Post by analog31 »

1MachineElf wrote: post #158
keitmo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For years I've said "any clothing manufacturer that promises something is both 'waterproof' and 'breathable' is lying to you". Shakedry actually delivers on this promise. FWIW I do endurance cycling in the Seattle area, a.k.a. "The Pacific NorthWET". We tend to stress the hell out of waterproof clothing.

In Florida, living between the coast and the everglades, rain is a daily occurrence. Having grown up there for 20 years, I feel that rain doesn't phase me at all. I have questioned the averseness northerners have towards getting wet. Living in Maryland now, so many I've interacted with will just not go outside all day if there is rain. They've been raised by parents who've trained them to wait for the rain to stop, t…

This strikes me as odd. I live in Wisconsin, which is not particularly rainy, but also not a desert. I'm a cyclist, for recreation and utility. On rainy days, there are certainly fewer people out on the bike paths, but far from zero. Likewise during the winter. I see people walking past my house, and at the parks, when it's wet out.

There are also people who don't like to be outdoors under those conditions, or who think that it's brave of me to ride my bike to work at -20 F, but I remind them that people work outdoors all day in places like Alaska, and survive.

Naturally, thunderstorms get a bit more attention. Those can produce hail and tornadoes, or blow down trees, with little provocation.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#284

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

blindriver wrote: post #266
bradlys wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> along with more oil or butter than you traditionally would for a non-stick pan Which means you're trading one health benefit for another.

The low-fat diet myth was dispelled years ago by more rigorous scientific studies. I grew up for decades thinking butter led to heart attacks but that was a criminally bad pseudoscience that people accepted as fact for almost the entire duration of my life, and it makes me angry that I got fooled for so long.

I think the evidence that low-fat diets, popularized by the now infamous food pyramid in the early 90s, were a colossally bad idea is pretty irrefutable these days.

However, the jury is still out (rightfully, IMO) on saturated fats, and there is plenty of good science that says to be wary of them (yet, still not as open-and-shut as is often reported in the health media). I think this article gives a good, fair overview: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-abo.... It references this meta-analysis, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20071648/, that found that saturated fat did not lead to greater heart or cardiovascular disease, but there are some fair criticisms of their methodology, e.g. https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/92/2/458/4597393

But, in any case, yes, for decades the nutrition experts in this country recommended replacing fats with carbohydrates and that was just horrible advice that wasn't supported by the science.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#285

Post by interroboink »

adultSwim wrote: post #238
throwaway892238 wrote: post #195

I must be a weirdo.... I just wear lots of wool, and a thin windproof/rainproof jacket with armpit zips. I get sweaty but I stay warm (as long as I'm moving)

I would love to see a return of waxed canvas as an outer shell material.

I enjoy my Driza-Bone coat — has been going strong for about 8 years now; just re-proofed it. Oil/wax-impregnated cotton is also easily repairable, unlike fancier materials.

It is a bit on the heavy side, though. Not really good for sports/cycling/etc, I wouldn't imagine. Also gets a bit ratty/threadbare wherever it gets repeatedly creased and un-creased.

But it really does work, and is long-lasting. I had previously been buying a new raincoat every few years due to some tiny crack in the waterproof layer that can't be easily fixed.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#286

Post by jjtheblunt »

1MachineElf wrote: post #158
keitmo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For years I've said "any clothing manufacturer that promises something is both 'waterproof' and 'breathable' is lying to you". Shakedry actually delivers on this promise. FWIW I do endurance cycling in the Seattle area, a.k.a. "The Pacific NorthWET". We tend to stress the hell out of waterproof clothing.

In Florida, living between the coast and the everglades, rain is a daily occurrence. Having grown up there for 20 years, I feel that rain doesn't phase me at all. I have questioned the averseness northerners have towards getting wet. Living in Maryland now, so many I've interacted with will just not go outside all day if there is rain. They've been raised by parents who've trained them to wait for the rain to stop, t…

i'm a northerner (chicagoland) and i loved rain, and never understood the point of umbrellas after having one as a little kid for going to school. i think there are lots of us, but rain at 35 fahrenheit drains heat faster than rain at 80 fahrenheit, so it's true we liked warm rain way way more.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#287

Post by persedes »

justin66 wrote: post #150
persedes wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mushrooms have a protein that can do so on their outer layers (hydrophobin). Worked in a biotech company that was researching it, not sure what came out of it.

They… kept their employees in the dark? It certainly seems likely we’ll find some good alternatives with biology.

...more likely this employee left before the project was finished ;)

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#288

Post by jamiek88 »

cwwc wrote: post #202
bradlys wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rain when it's 40F out hits different. It's not 70 and raining. It makes you much colder.

I get this — but in the Lakes district (England) or anyplace in Scotland, rain at 40F is still common yet folks are unperturbed and continue their daily outdoor activities.

A lot of this is because it rains so often if you didn’t get used to it you’d never do anything.

Same with golf, most golfers in UK and Ireland will have extensive rain gear, umbrellas etc to play golf otherwise they’d be limited to like 4 weeks a year.

When I lived there I had that gear too but when i lived in Texas I just didn’t play when it rained as I knew a sunny day was around the corner, year round.

Florida rains everyday in the Orlando area but only for an hour and most of th time it’s dry and sunny.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#289

Post by qbasic_forever »

fncivivue7 wrote: post #240

And thank fuck for that. DWR is disgusting, horrible stuff. Stop using DWR. Buy frogtoggs or Columbia outdry and leave this stuff behind. Outdry is lighter stronger, doesn't wear off after three outings, and the material breathes better than a wetted out goretex jacket ever will. Unless you're in snow, goretex is next to useless.

Outdry extreme is exactly the same as shakedry, it's just one layer goretex (or equivalent PTFE membrane). The non-extreme versions laminate on extra fabric layers for durability--just like other more traditional 2 and 3 layer goretex gear. Outdry is the same as goretex just not licensed from the company.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#290

Post by MarcelOlsz »

meristem wrote: post #272
bamboozled wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have one and I can't compare it to your 20 year old model, but I wear it skiing everday in winter, maybe 140 days of the year, I have fo 3 years and so far it's fine.

Ski-related followup: What do you wear over it?

Generic clothing follow up: Is there some sort of guide to materials and fabrics within a weather context? Like a diagram of a guy and you click "-20C + biking" and it dresses him up and you can see all the layers and recommendations. There has to be something out there.
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