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France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

euronews.com

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Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#111

Post by varispeed »

helloworld11 wrote: post #103
varispeed wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Paris - Lyon by airplane: 1h15 plus travel to and from airport, plus security, boarding etc Reminds of when someone says "this recipe only takes 20 minutes to make!" and they fail to mention you have to spend whole day shopping for ingredients, do some prep the day before and then spend half a day cleaning the kitchen afterwards... oh and then if you actually cook it for 20 minutes, chances are it will be barely sa…

>Reminds of when someone says "this recipe only takes 20 minutes to make!" and they fail to mention.... Or, keep essential ingredients for good and favorite recipes on hand generally, clean pots and utensils in the middle of cooking (usually very possible during pauses and wait times) and cook properly. Most foods can indeed be cooked perfectly in 20 minutes and with a bit of practice it's easy to create great 20-30…

I see your point, but that's a bit like "or live by the airport, where your most favourite airlines depart from".

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#112

Post by throwaway049 »

mantas wrote: post #59
throwaway049 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"slightly more expensive" Reminds me of Caroline Lucas, when asked about her air travel, saying there should be a focus on taxing aviation fuel. What this all amounts to is travel should be restricted to the wealthy.

And taxing aviation fuel will make the rich pay trough the nose for their „privilege“. Which is good. What do you propose?

No. It's not good. It enables the rich to travel while locking out others. A fair system would ration access to a scarce resource based on need.

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#113

Post by rsync »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #20
mojuba wrote: post #16

I understand the criticism but to be fair high speed trains are better in many cases: Paris - Lyon by airplane: 1h15 plus travel to and from airport, plus security, boarding etc Paris - Lyon by train: 2h30, city center to city center, no security checks. This might actually be faster! Personally when traveling between London and Paris I choose the high speed train. It's usually more expensive but just the fact it rem…

It costs me around 60€ to go from France to Switzerland by plane. It costs me way more than 60€ to go from France to Switzerland by train. This why people are taking the plane, because it's less expensive that high speed rail, nothing more. Make high speed rail less expensive and people will take the train. Government induced free market distortion under pretense of ecology concerns is just what it is, bullshit, and…

Forgive me, but your comment drops below any reasonable threshold of HN guidelines and I am forced to use strong language like “absurd” and “clownish” to describe what you’re asserting …

The overriding market distortion, which trumps every other variable here, is the zero value given to any environmental externalities coming from air travel.

In addition, both CH and FR have massive governmental subsidies for their national carriers and the operation of their airports.

Which is to say:

you’re swimming in free market distortions so deeply you’ll never come up for air … and you’re decrying this one ?

Seriously: grow up.

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#114

Post by bsaul »

cauch wrote: post #82
bsaul wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've had numerous examples now of how pseudo-environmental policies destroyed economies and energy infrastructure in europe (germany becoming super dependant on gaz and coal, and france leaving its nuclear infrastructure to rust), with absolutely 0 effect on climate, (and 0 is a generous number, if anything those policies did worst for climate change than just doing nothin). I believe it is now time for citizen to a…

> We've had numerous examples now of how pseudo-environmental policies destroyed economies and energy infrastructure in europe ... france leaving its nuclear infrastructure to rust I'm the first one to criticize pseudo-environmental policies, and Germany was indeed a mess due to pseudo-environmental policies. But the state of french nuclear infrastructure is not due to ecologists, it is very stupid to think it is, be…

it's a very famous fact that the fesseinhem nucleae power plant, for example, was an electoral deal between socialist party and the green one.

But more importantly, the idea that the "renewable energies" had to be pushed forward aggressively, despite all data showing it couldn't replace nuclear or fossile, is a general gospel spread by green activists throughout the world.

Political parties saw that the population were becoming brainwashed by this ideology and adapted, as a way to gain election.

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#115

Post by bsaul »

helmholtz wrote: post #80
bsaul wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've had numerous examples now of how pseudo-environmental policies destroyed economies and energy infrastructure in europe (germany becoming super dependant on gaz and coal, and france leaving its nuclear infrastructure to rust), with absolutely 0 effect on climate, (and 0 is a generous number, if anything those policies did worst for climate change than just doing nothin). I believe it is now time for citizen to a…

My man, you still haven't told me what this regulation is going to affect. What are the side effects? I'm not talking about energy infrastructure in Europe, nor am I interested in a wider discussion about 'eco-bullshit' or 'pseudo-environmental policies'. I'd just like to see your take on the unintended consequences of this policy that you are able to foresee. Furthermore, if the airplane traffic is indeed this negli…

I don't understand why you keep asking. I'm saying i expected unanticipated side effects to happen.

Just like anytime you disrupt a well established market ( like public transport in france), with arbitrary decisions based solely on politic games.

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#116

Post by helloworld11 »

varispeed wrote: post #111
helloworld11 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Reminds of when someone says "this recipe only takes 20 minutes to make!" and they fail to mention.... Or, keep essential ingredients for good and favorite recipes on hand generally, clean pots and utensils in the middle of cooking (usually very possible during pauses and wait times) and cook properly. Most foods can indeed be cooked perfectly in 20 minutes and with a bit of practice it's easy to create great 20-30…

I see your point, but that's a bit like "or live by the airport, where your most favourite airlines depart from".

Huh? How? Living by the airport (not recommended btw) is a whole huge question of moving house and home to a specific location. Having a few essentials at home and learning a few basics for cooking on the fly and really crafting 20-30 minute recipes requires a pretty minimal investment of time and effort. The two don't compare at all.

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#117

Post by 36amxn35 »

exabrial wrote: post #78

Read between the lines: this has nothing to do with ecology. I don’t really understand the French government and culture enough to guess what the ulterior motive is; perhaps something with keeping non-French companies from running cheap airlines in the country?

Absolutely this. Also, in political threads, I always read the grey-ish/dead comments because they are the ones with a glimpse of common sense. I think that this forum should stick strictly to technology as it simply can't handle political news, and it causes more harm that good. A false consensus, an echo chamber, whatever you want to call it.

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#118

Post by ROTMetro »

cauch wrote: post #75
joking wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s correct if everyone traveled from city center to city center, but in my case, the airport is easier to get than the hsr station, has more long time parking options, and sometimes the destination is a layover, so I would have to go from the center of paris to the airport equally. I Would love to travel a lot more by train, or less by plane, but right now and at least in my case, it’s not a very good option.

Laws should not be decided just based on what is good for you in particular, but in considering what is the most efficient in average. Sure, you may have an easy access to the airport outside the city centre, but people in the city centre, which constitute a bigger number, have a worst access. And people who are not in the city centre but on the other side also have a worst access to the airport than the city centre.…

Does this efficiency justify this law? https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10311

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#119

Post by Nifty3929 »

mojuba wrote: post #16

I understand the criticism but to be fair high speed trains are better in many cases: Paris - Lyon by airplane: 1h15 plus travel to and from airport, plus security, boarding etc Paris - Lyon by train: 2h30, city center to city center, no security checks. This might actually be faster! Personally when traveling between London and Paris I choose the high speed train. It's usually more expensive but just the fact it rem…

If it’s better to travel by train, then no need to ban short flights, because people wouldn’t use them much. Empirically, since people ARE taking short flights instead of trains, the people who are doing so believe that flights are better for them.

Why take away a choice from people?

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#120

Post by Nifty3929 »

exabrial wrote: post #78

Read between the lines: this has nothing to do with ecology. I don’t really understand the French government and culture enough to guess what the ulterior motive is; perhaps something with keeping non-French companies from running cheap airlines in the country?

More likely favoring the train companies and unions.
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