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PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

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Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#71

I am not optimistic about the future of sustainable specialized materials. It seems very likely that the same structures that give modern high tech materials their unique abilities are the same ones that make them so environmentally unfriendly.

People want to own a dream. Buy it for life, effective, durable, but also easily compostable! Very cheap, but hand made by workers paid a living wage with fair trade materials imported from pro-LQBTQIA green democracies.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#72

I wish that we'd come up with a replacement that's just as good first , and only then phase out the original. As an example of the right way to do things, consider that nobody banned leaded avgas before the FAA found and approved a safe unleaded formulation.

You realize this stuff is actually /toxic/, right?

Can you come up with a single incentive that would make the industry invent non-toxic alternatives faster than a ban on the toxic substances would?

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#73
post #30
post #13

For anyone not familiar with what makes Shakedry so revolutionary is its ability to be waterproof, highly breathable, and incredibly lightweight. Its weight and breathability make it incredible for active sports like cycling or running. These jackets weigh around 100-150g depending on features and size and can pack into the pocket of a cycling Jersey, all while being waterproof and preventing the athlete from overhea…

> waterproof, highly breathable, and incredibly lightweight This is basically the way most outdoors products have been marketed since the previous century so I’m not sure how much we’re actually talking about here. What I was hoping to see in that article was something more quantitative — does “heavy and doesn't breathe as well” mean something is 20% heavier or 200%, etc.?

It's night and day different with other waterproof tech. Goretex publishes all the specs you want like hydrostatic head rating (how many mm of water pressure it can withstand), breathability, etc. Shakedry was better and lighter than anything else we've ever seen. The only con against it is that in high abrasion situations (like shoulder areas of jackets when wearing a heavy backpack) it can wear out. People in the outdoor and especially ultralight world loved shakedry.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#74

I wish that we'd come up with a replacement that's just as good first , and only then phase out the original. As an example of the right way to do things, consider that nobody banned leaded avgas before the FAA found and approved a safe unleaded formulation.

It also seems like using these things in items like jackets is a lot less problematic than using them in ski waxes, which by design erode from the ski and get distributed in the environment. Jackets more or less stay in one piece.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#75
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are in the middle of a biotech revolution. Figuring out how to scale up bioengineered materials is a likely source of impressive materials. Nature is full of stuff like spider silk, chitin, bone, phosphorescent materials, sponges,etc.

I remember reading something about the trillions of chiken bones we discard annually are something of a problem. "The dose makes the poison" seems to apply to the environment as much as it does to the individual.

What does 'discarded' mean here? The end user discards them but that does not require that they are dumped. They can be crushed, composted, used as feedstock for some other process, etc.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#76
post #35
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading something about the trillions of chiken bones we discard annually are something of a problem. "The dose makes the poison" seems to apply to the environment as much as it does to the individual.

trillions of kg/yr of anything will effect the environment in some way , since "the environment" is just the emergent properties of all of the things in the earth system and trillions of kg/yr of stuff is a lot of stuff. If you added (or removed) 10^12 kg of water (or literally anything else) to the planet, it would change the environment in detectable ways.

>10^12 kg of water

That's exactly 1 km^3 of water. The Earth has 1,386,000,000 km^3 of surface water.

I don't think increasing the amount of water by ~0.00000007% would be noticeable.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#77

I wish that we'd come up with a replacement that's just as good first , and only then phase out the original. As an example of the right way to do things, consider that nobody banned leaded avgas before the FAA found and approved a safe unleaded formulation.

"We should keep poisoning the planet until it's convenient for capitalism" is a very unsurprising take on HN, but disappointing nonetheless.

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#78

Since I watched the movie “Dark Waters”, I’m trying to avoid those PFO(A|E) as much as I can. Threw all non-stick pans away and learnt how to cook with just cast iron or inox pans. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Waters_(2019_film)

that movie is fiction

probably neither any kind of fiction, nor any kind of movies, but least of all fictional movies, are a good source for information about scientific facts, toxicology, or risk assessment

Re: PFC bans are going to change waterproof garments

#79

I wish that we'd come up with a replacement that's just as good first , and only then phase out the original. As an example of the right way to do things, consider that nobody banned leaded avgas before the FAA found and approved a safe unleaded formulation.

"I wish that we would keep getting cancer until ..."
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