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Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

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Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#11
post #5

Haha, "Wolfgang Draxinger" signed 28 days ago. Check out this epic battle between Draxinger and Poettering: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0

I've to admit that the presentation as an 'epic battle' made me dismiss this at first.

But thanks a lot for that link. It was amusing _and_ interesting.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#12
post #10
post #2

"You seem to know a lot of stuff about me. I am not particular fond of people who turn their dislike of software I wrote into personal accusations and judging in a public forum." - Lennart Poettering Sep 21, 2008 http://lwn.net/Articles/299615/ For what it's worth, 4 years on I still struggle daily with audio and only audio on Linux. I'm not in a position to tell if it's ALSA or PulseAudio that makes nothing come out…

Why does nobody else create a better sound system?

Oh they do, all the time. OSS, ALSA, PulseAudio... http://xkcd.com/927/

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#13
post #5

Haha, "Wolfgang Draxinger" signed 28 days ago. Check out this epic battle between Draxinger and Poettering: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0

When I read the headline of the article, I had to think exactly about this video. :)

There were indeed good reasons for writing things like DBus, systemd, PulseAudio and others.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#14
I think blaming someone for innovating is possibly the stupidest thing one could do.

dbus is awesome. Best bus we have.

systemd is really nice and useful, overall a better upstart. The reason it's not a patch for upstart or sysinit is that their designs preclude certain features that systemd provides.

I don't know about pulseaudio, and I'm not sold on Journal.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#15
post #3

What's the back story here?

Stupidity, in a word (attacking a single person in this way). If you ask for possible reasons to attack Lennart in the first place: He was the main force behind Pulseaudio (which, for various technical and political reasons was reviled for a long time) and now systemd (a C replacement for the sys-v scripts, think smf/launchd).

The only reason people hated PulseAudio was because Ubuntu shipped it as their default sound system a year or two before it was ready. Now it's a pretty mature sound system that works well (at least with all the Linux hardware I have)...

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#16
post #5

Haha, "Wolfgang Draxinger" signed 28 days ago. Check out this epic battle between Draxinger and Poettering: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0

The way Poettering dismisses the "1970s unix mindset" is really sad. Here we have a big Linux contributor who apparently doesn't appreciate his heritage, which explains why he's constantly trying to reinvent it... and poorly, as the saying goes. I'm one of those who really didn't see the need for PulseAudio or any of the *Kit stuff, and even HAL was kind of a train wreck (all those years to make it stable and supported by desktop managers, to then throw it all away).

I'm sure he's just the most visible advocate of this approach, not the only one, but he's certainly responsible for a lot of the misery Linux desktop users like me were and are subjected to. After a decade of Linux on my desktop, I've switched back to Windows 7 in early 2011 and, to be honest, I'm quite happy I did.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#17

Blaming Lennart (not Leonard!) is a bit counterproductive. There's a general tendency in the desktop Linux community to rewrite components every few years, rather than improving what exists. I guess this is mainly caused by the failure of Linux as a commercial desktop. Except for heroic efforts by Red Hat, SUSE, and previously Sun, it's mostly a hobbyist affair. As a hobby, people prefer to do the fun work, not the t…

> the effort required to maintain a stable Linux desktop made me switch to OS X in 2007

I remember it was complicated in 2002. In 2007 it was already at the "mostly works" stage.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#18

Blaming Lennart (not Leonard!) is a bit counterproductive. There's a general tendency in the desktop Linux community to rewrite components every few years, rather than improving what exists. I guess this is mainly caused by the failure of Linux as a commercial desktop. Except for heroic efforts by Red Hat, SUSE, and previously Sun, it's mostly a hobbyist affair. As a hobby, people prefer to do the fun work, not the t…

> On a personal note, the effort required to maintain a stable Linux desktop made me switch to OS X in 2007, after using Linux for 13 years.

To each his own. For me it's much better than Windows and GNOME attempting to copy OSX features has made it much worse. I'm not certainly not switching to OSX ever.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#19

Blaming Lennart (not Leonard!) is a bit counterproductive. There's a general tendency in the desktop Linux community to rewrite components every few years, rather than improving what exists. I guess this is mainly caused by the failure of Linux as a commercial desktop. Except for heroic efforts by Red Hat, SUSE, and previously Sun, it's mostly a hobbyist affair. As a hobby, people prefer to do the fun work, not the t…

The failure of Linux as a commercial desktop is also (not entirely, of course) his responsibility, considering the crap he pulled with all the desktop components he messed with (PulseAudio, HAL, DBUS etc etc), so clearly it's not a causal factor for his behaviour.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupidity, in a word (attacking a single person in this way). If you ask for possible reasons to attack Lennart in the first place: He was the main force behind Pulseaudio (which, for various technical and political reasons was reviled for a long time) and now systemd (a C replacement for the sys-v scripts, think smf/launchd).

The only reason people hated PulseAudio was because Ubuntu shipped it as their default sound system a year or two before it was ready. Now it's a pretty mature sound system that works well (at least with all the Linux hardware I have)...

"A year or two before it was ready", people like Lennart were already advocating it as The One True Way for Linux audio, so I don't blame Ubuntu for jumping the gun.

Besides, looking at how things go in that area, now that it works well enough it will probably be replaced quite soon.

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