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Iran abolishes morality police

hindustantimes.com

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Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#171

Post by mdp2021 »

malermeister wrote: post #131
verisimi wrote: post #114

"Iran abolishes morality police" .. and now, can we? I'm a bit tired off all the bull crap that is no longer allowed to be said, as if self-policing oneself and being unable to honestly state one's opinion, is the way to become more authentic. As if repressing oneself and suppressing others could ever lead to a better society.

Of course repressing oneself can lead to a better society. If pedophiles, people with violent urges etc are able to suppress their urges for example, don't you think that's a good thing? Should everyone just be acting out their id's desires unchecked?

Very clearly the poster is talking about restraints caused by vocal sub-cultural shifts, not about pre-frontal abilities.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#172

Post by Matl »

lajosbacs wrote: post #157
Matl wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I read in your comment is that the ppl of Iran have no agency My stance is the exact opposite, it's that they do have agency but that the constant articles in the West celebrating a chance for some sort of regime change actually gives the Iranian government the ammunition it needs to make them appear sponsored/non-organic. It makes it worse that the West does in fact have a history of regime change in Iran, (t…

Ok, I see and accept your point. But still after your clarification, I see nothing wrong with west cheering the revolution. a) It is our side b) It is impossible to enforce 'not cheering', one slip is enough to be used against you, see Musk and Russian propaganda. And regarding the Gulf states, I also do not like this. But one has to pick his battles and better (for us) getting our oil from them than from Russia.

> But one has to pick his battles and better (for us) getting our oil from them than from Russia.

Hmm...could you clarify? The human rights situation in the Gulf is much, much worse in the Gulf. Would this be because they're easier to get in line?

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#173

Post by implements »

busterarm wrote: post #151
throwaway0asd wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also worth noting the Iranian supreme leaders (there have only been two) are not Ayatollahs. I see these terms falsely conjoined many times in the comments here. Comparatively the Ayatollahs, or specifically the Grand Ayatollahs, are quite moderate compared to the fundamentalists In political power. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khamenei https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayatollah The most well known of the…

> It is also worth noting the Iranian supreme leaders (there have only been two) are not Ayatollahs. I see these terms falsely conjoined many times in the comments here. Comparatively the Ayatollahs, or specifically the Grand Ayatollahs, are quite moderate compared to the fundamentalists In political power. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khamenei Yeah..."Mr Death To America" Himself is a moderate... I see why yo…

I’d told that “Death to X!” is a cultural hyperbole better read as “Down with X!” - sounds terrible to westerners read literally, but isn’t actually that strong.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#174

Post by vidarh »

dontbenebby wrote: post #106
petesergeant wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what people want when they put their lives on the line to make a change [removed: a reference to The Troubles] A minority of people can feel very, very strongly about something without the majority of people feeling that way. > [the] part of the population [that supports the Iranian regime] is generally a smaller part Happy to believe that, but where’s the data? That some people are clearly very angry at the monstr…

[flagged]

Here[1] is a poll from yesterday showing 50% would still like to stay in the UK vs. 27% wanting reunification, even with Brexit. It seems reasonable to assume they know what they want.

[1] https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/reunification-poll-14007...

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#175

Post by behnamoh »

linuxftw wrote: post #150

It's so easy to judge other cultures through the lens of our own. All nations enforce some form of dress code in public spaces, who's the arbiter of what's morally acceptable? If other countries think their behavior is so repugnant, they should open their doors to unlimited refugees. If their atrocities are so great, build support and fight a war.

The thing is: hijab was not part of the Iranian culture anyway. It was enforced on women by a religious minority who took power.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#176

Post by ghufran_syed »

Nursie wrote: post #111
hairofadog wrote: post #91

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%…

AFAICT many student participants in the revolution thought they were fighting to install a relatively liberal democratic system, but when the regime actually fell it was hardline religious groups who were organised enough to fill the power vacuum quickly. So I'm not sure it was so much the pendulum swinging the other way, as an organised group who were poised to take over when chaos ruled. But my understanding is lim…

If only they’d read “the road to serfdom” by hayek, describing why in such situations, “the worst always come out on top”.

https://cdn.mises.org/Road%20to%20serfdom.pdf

https://cdn.mises.org/Road%20to%20Serfdom%20in%20Cartoons.pd...

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#177

Post by socialdemocrat »

Eisenstein wrote: post #122
hairofadog wrote: post #91

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%…

> but they are monsters that we created. I think we should be careful using wording like that. The Iranians have agency and can do things on their own. Just because the west meddled in things doesn't give us the right to claim the results as ours, be they good or bad.

“Iranians have agency” is a crappy argument to excuse American meddling and overthrow of democratic societies. That gives the US a blank check to do whatever they please and later blame the victim for the outcome.

A revolution is not about agency. You make a mockery of the whole idea. Agency implies what the majority wants. That is what they had with democracy which the US ruined. They took away Iranian agency. The revolution later happening is not a good example of agency. A revolution rarely express the popular will. Instead it gives power to those people most capable of using violence.

Democratically inclined and freedom loving humanitarians will frequently lose in a civil war as they lack the violent behavior to win.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#178

Post by Koshkin »

mdp2021 wrote: post #164
hairofadog wrote: post #91

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%…

> we Careful with that "«we»", Eugene. I am certainly not responsible for the actions of the empowered.

Generally people are considered responsible for the actions of their governments - at least those that were democratically elected.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#179

Post by malermeister »

mdp2021 wrote: post #171
malermeister wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course repressing oneself can lead to a better society. If pedophiles, people with violent urges etc are able to suppress their urges for example, don't you think that's a good thing? Should everyone just be acting out their id's desires unchecked?

Very clearly the poster is talking about restraints caused by vocal sub-cultural shifts, not about pre-frontal abilities.

The two are interrelated.

Human sacrifice used to be a common cultural practice in many parts of the world.

In Europe, old men used to marry prebuscent teenagers.

We suppressed those things through vocal cultural shifts.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#180

Post by smugma »

misterspaceman wrote: post #42

"The morality police [...] were established under president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, [and] began patrols in 2006." I didn't realize they were formed that recently; I thought it would have been created at the start of the regime. Yashar Ali (@yashar) on Twitter has been covering these protests extensively. I'm waiting for him to comment on this, but it doesn't appear he's awake yet.

There were morality police when I visited in 1993. My mom was stopped because she was wearing sheer, not colored, pantyhose and her ankle was visible. I was pulled aside from her (I was a young teenager). She argued with them for a few minutes, supposedly yelled at them, and then we were on our way.

BBC this morning: Iran has had various forms of "morality police" since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, but the latest version - known formally as the Gasht-e Ershad - is currently the main agency tasked enforcing Iran's Islamic code of conduct.

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