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France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

euronews.com

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Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#51

Post by throwaway049 »

Freak_NL wrote: post #37
throw_m239339 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It costs me around 60€ to go from France to Switzerland by plane. It costs me way more than 60€ to go from France to Switzerland by train. This why people are taking the plane, because it's less expensive that high speed rail, nothing more. Make high speed rail less expensive and people will take the train. Government induced free market distortion under pretense of ecology concerns is just what it is, bullshit, and…

Just taking a simple example like Lausanne (Switzerland) to Paris (France)¹ shows comparable ticket prices. For an arbitrary date a few months away like April 21st, that gives me a single train ticket for €65 on a direct connection to Gare du Nord, or a train ride to Genève-Aéroport (€8) plus a plane ticket for around €65 to Orly. Cheaper plane tickets exist, but not if you have even a single backpack. In terms of ti…

"slightly more expensive"

Reminds me of Caroline Lucas, when asked about her air travel, saying there should be a focus on taxing aviation fuel.

What this all amounts to is travel should be restricted to the wealthy.

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#52

Post by throwaway049 »

qeternity wrote: post #29
alistairSH wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is train so much more expensive? Surely jets that cost $100s of millions, supported by massive airports, are more expensive? Seems like the market distortions are subsidies to airlines of some sort.

Competition, and the subsidies are the other way around: many train companies receive them, and most airlines don't.

I'd argue that not pricing in the negative externalities of flying amounts to a subsidy.

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#53

Post by thiht »

mojuba wrote: post #16

I understand the criticism but to be fair high speed trains are better in many cases: Paris - Lyon by airplane: 1h15 plus travel to and from airport, plus security, boarding etc Paris - Lyon by train: 2h30, city center to city center, no security checks. This might actually be faster! Personally when traveling between London and Paris I choose the high speed train. It's usually more expensive but just the fact it rem…

Agree, in France train is usually way more convenient. There are still issues though, for example Rennes-Toulouse is 1h30 by plane, and 7 (!) hours by train. I really hope this gets fixed, until then train is just not an option in this case.

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#54

Post by varispeed »

prawn wrote: post #4
varispeed wrote: post #2

We are all in this together* *except the rich So this is another measure to widen the gap between the rich and the pleb - when the pleb's travel gets restricted further, the rich can enjoy private jet hopping undisturbed - which gives them advantage over the pleb as they can get to places even quicker. If we are serious about climate, then there should be no exceptions for the rich, in fact they should be leading by…

From the article: ” France is also cracking down on the use of private jets for short journeys in a bid to make transport greener and fairer for the population.” ”Transport minister Clément Beaune said the country could no longer tolerate the super rich using private planes while the public are making cutbacks to deal with the energy crisis and climate change.”

> France is also cracking down

This is a soundbite designed to calm people down. If there was a "crackdown", they would have listed steps taken to ensure the transport is "fairer".

When government is saying they are "cracking down" - using quite emotionally loaded word - is precisely to cover up the fact they do nothing.

If they really wanted to make transport fairer, they would have banned short private jet trips too. There is no excuse to not do that. None.

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#55

Post by sokoloff »

foxhill wrote: post #46
sokoloff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see where your data refutes GP’s primary point; your data shows road transport as being much higher share of emissions than aviation.

it doesn’t refute it, and it wasn’t my intention to do so. i was trying to point out that such an “extreme” position might not be sensible for such a fractionally small amount of CO2 emissions.

The extreme position being banning a small sliver of air travel (itself a small sliver of the overall pie)?

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#56

Post by tyingq »

alistairSH wrote: post #24
throw_m239339 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It costs me around 60€ to go from France to Switzerland by plane. It costs me way more than 60€ to go from France to Switzerland by train. This why people are taking the plane, because it's less expensive that high speed rail, nothing more. Make high speed rail less expensive and people will take the train. Government induced free market distortion under pretense of ecology concerns is just what it is, bullshit, and…

Why is train so much more expensive? Surely jets that cost $100s of millions, supported by massive airports, are more expensive? Seems like the market distortions are subsidies to airlines of some sort.

Do trains in France use the same sort of demand-driven pricing scheme airlines use? People tend to estimate airline pricing based on the cheapest price they see, which is often a fraction of the cost when demand changes.

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#57

Post by varispeed »

mojuba wrote: post #16

I understand the criticism but to be fair high speed trains are better in many cases: Paris - Lyon by airplane: 1h15 plus travel to and from airport, plus security, boarding etc Paris - Lyon by train: 2h30, city center to city center, no security checks. This might actually be faster! Personally when traveling between London and Paris I choose the high speed train. It's usually more expensive but just the fact it rem…

> Paris - Lyon by airplane: 1h15 plus travel to and from airport, plus security, boarding etc

Reminds of when someone says "this recipe only takes 20 minutes to make!" and they fail to mention you have to spend whole day shopping for ingredients, do some prep the day before and then spend half a day cleaning the kitchen afterwards... oh and then if you actually cook it for 20 minutes, chances are it will be barely safe to eat and would need much longer time.

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#58

Post by 543g43g43 »

foxhill wrote: post #46
sokoloff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see where your data refutes GP’s primary point; your data shows road transport as being much higher share of emissions than aviation.

it doesn’t refute it, and it wasn’t my intention to do so. i was trying to point out that such an “extreme” position might not be sensible for such a fractionally small amount of CO2 emissions.

What is sensible, about banning a particular journey type for a transport sector that produces even smaller CO2 emissions, and has better fuel economy per passenger seat than (for example) buses and SUVs?

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#59

Post by mantas »

throwaway049 wrote: post #51
Freak_NL wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just taking a simple example like Lausanne (Switzerland) to Paris (France)¹ shows comparable ticket prices. For an arbitrary date a few months away like April 21st, that gives me a single train ticket for €65 on a direct connection to Gare du Nord, or a train ride to Genève-Aéroport (€8) plus a plane ticket for around €65 to Orly. Cheaper plane tickets exist, but not if you have even a single backpack. In terms of ti…

"slightly more expensive" Reminds me of Caroline Lucas, when asked about her air travel, saying there should be a focus on taxing aviation fuel. What this all amounts to is travel should be restricted to the wealthy.

And taxing aviation fuel will make the rich pay trough the nose for their „privilege“. Which is good.

What do you propose?

Re: France bans short haul domestic flights in favour of train travel

#60

Post by retinaros »

mojuba wrote: post #16

I understand the criticism but to be fair high speed trains are better in many cases: Paris - Lyon by airplane: 1h15 plus travel to and from airport, plus security, boarding etc Paris - Lyon by train: 2h30, city center to city center, no security checks. This might actually be faster! Personally when traveling between London and Paris I choose the high speed train. It's usually more expensive but just the fact it rem…

yeah only when its not on strike and then if it is that leaves you with no alternative. it also create a monopoly. train tickets will rise.
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