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Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

wsj.com

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Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#91

Post by rolisz »

amelius wrote: post #63
alephnan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple and many westerners never understand the risk and the ethics implication of doing business in X For clothing, people can check the label. Most consumers simply don’t care enough when fast fashion is cheaper and more convenient than “ethical brands”

People never see the harm done so they are basically ignorant. Most people wouldn't eat meat if they had to kill an animal either.

Plenty of people live on farms and grow animals, kill them and then eat them.

I haven't killed one myself, but I have been at pig butchering "parties" at my grandparents or uncles and saw how the sausage is made. Still tastes yummy.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#92

Post by mikymoothrowa »

cm2187 wrote: post #61
peanuty1 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making chips in Taiwan is just so economical.

Curious about why. It’s not a particularly cheap country.

Semiconductor manufacturing is a highly specialised process. It doesn’t rely on the labor being cheap.

Until recently, a good chunk of CPUs were Intel and were made in the US.

The Chinese SMIC and Samsung were also making a good deal of CPUs.

It’s just that only TMSC has the tech to make the higher end 5nm chips these days.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#93

Post by fyresala »

throwawaaay129 wrote: post #50
fyresala wrote: post #26

iPhone made in China is no better than the cotton from Xinjiang. Earlier the reports are workers in the China iPhone factory had a protest and brutal conflict with the local police. Reasons varied from unbearable working condition, the zero-covid policy, and being deceived about the compensation. After the local police oppressed the campaign, the government assigned headcounts to local villages, demanding them to fil…

I don't know where people get the idea people are semi-enslaved in factories.. Having lived in China, in my second hand experience Chinese worker protection laws are quite strict. Somewhere between US and Europe. It's not really easy to fire people and people regularly sue their employers and win. The legal system is generally very heavily biased towards the little guy I just feel really bad for these people. They pr…

Your views of labor law are completely wrong.

> in my second hand experience Chinese worker protection laws are quite strict.

And yes, it's very strict. Lawful working hours are 40 hours per week. Lawfully firing a employee requires higher compensation than US.

Do you really believe above is enforced in China? Next time when you visiting China, ask them if familiar with this quote: laws in China are strictly legislated, commonly broke, selectively enforced. In fact, 996 is a norm and a company that does not require 996 will advertise that when recruiting. Layoff compensation for many people is ZERO because they don't even have social insurance or contracts signed. 100 Chinese Yuan per day, you get it when working and get nothing when leaving. (That's not the case for Foxconn though. I believe everyone working in Foxconn at least has a contract.)

> I just feel really bad for these people. They probably left some country side life making peanuts to go make some real money for a while at a factory and like send their kids to college or whatever - and now westerners are like "no, you shouldn't do that. go back to your bucolic life of poverty. And btw we hate your government". Cool

Thanks, I appreciate that. I (the OP) am that kid though. And I believe getting involved in labor-intensive industries can be a better thing than what it is nowadays in China.

I agree with the rest of your post. Like I mentioned, reasons of the protest are varied.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#94

Post by Markoff »

Qtips87 wrote: post #79

If Apple want to exit China for geopolitical reason it should move to Vietnam. Western manufacturers have set up shops in India before and there were few successful stories and many have exit eventually. Ford for example exit India after not turning a profit for decades. When people point out India's problem it is the usual suspect like government red tapes, poor infrastructure, unreliable electric grid...etc. Some e…

So exist communist China for communist Vietnam, right, that's really an improvement.

Only reason companies are moving from China is because of too high cost already while Vietnam, Indonesia or India are way poorer. Plus if you would read the article you would notice Vietnam is just too small with not enough labor to replace China.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#95

Post by fyresala »

throwawaaay129 wrote: post #71
philliphaydon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been living in Asia for 11 or 12 years now. There is definitely a strange culture of over-working. Young people who live at home with their parents sometimes work late because they don't want to go home to their parents. Alot of other people work late because they want to get noticed for promotions etc. Some of it's self-inflicted. The first company I worked for in Singapore, the 'suits' as they are called (glor…

Yeah, I think it's a scenario where you can probably sue and you can probably win - but then (just like in the US) you're known as the person that sues their employer and it's a black mark. I haven't heard of people getting lawsuits about 996 thrown out in China - but to be fair I also haven't heard of people suing over that either.

> but to be fair I also haven't heard of people suing over that either.

Guess why

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#96

Post by mikymoothrowa »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #77
MarkusWandel wrote: post #74

What I would rather know is where the entire supply chain is. What countries contribute what percentage of the finished product? You can claim "made in X" if the final assembly is there, even if 90% of the value add is in the supply chain not located in X.

Apple have the budget and the interest to investigate their supply chain and provide a good answer to this. Outside sources probably don't :/ My uninformed speculation would be that the answer is something like 90% China for each hop along the chain, but those accumulate. 0.9^n becomes small with large enough n, so depending on the viewpoint it might be majority non-China…

it’s no where close to 90%

https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple-Supp...

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#97

Post by rrgok »

Someone said something along the line of "This alone is going to be a huge driver of India's economy going forward...". I honestly feel the opposite. This will make the country more poorer. Hey, I don't know anything about economics. But if mass production (in tech) happens always in those countries and the economy moves forward, then why, on average, those people's lifestyle is not comparable to the poorest man in the west?

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#98

Post by ekianjo »

sgu999 wrote: post #47
fyresala wrote: post #26

iPhone made in China is no better than the cotton from Xinjiang. Earlier the reports are workers in the China iPhone factory had a protest and brutal conflict with the local police. Reasons varied from unbearable working condition, the zero-covid policy, and being deceived about the compensation. After the local police oppressed the campaign, the government assigned headcounts to local villages, demanding them to fil…

> Apple and many westerners never understand the risk and the ethics implication of doing business in China. Apple industrial partners are all asians. Samsung and the like don't do any better regarding ethics. Not sure why the divide with the "ignorant west" is necessary in your argument. Of course people at Apple understand the risk, and it is taken into account to generate as much profit as possible.

lets not compare South Korea and China please...

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#99

Post by ekianjo »

sofixa wrote: post #76
anovikov wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truth is, there is no way to profitably produce any durable consumer products without dealing with someone who treats workers like trash, simply because everyone else is also doing this. Of course, we have a choice of them being Commies (China), or not being Commies (India), but that's about it. Only way to fundamentally fix it will be to introduce a new Iron Curtain where we will "not trade with anyone we don't cont…

> Truth is, there is no way to profitably produce any durable consumer products without dealing with someone who treats workers like trash, simply because everyone else is also doing this In some cases that's true, but in the case of Apple - the one with higher cost "luxury" products, double digit percent profit margins, tens of billions of cash and trillion dollar market cap - it doesn't really make sense as an excu…

Apple has grown to this size because they had a much better margin than its competitors in the first place. If they built everything in America they would have disappeared long ago.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#100

Post by itsoktocry »

hackernewds wrote: post #83
throwawaaay129 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where people get the idea people are semi-enslaved in factories.. Having lived in China, in my second hand experience Chinese worker protection laws are quite strict. Somewhere between US and Europe. It's not really easy to fire people and people regularly sue their employers and win. The legal system is generally very heavily biased towards the little guy I just feel really bad for these people. They pr…

This reads oddly like propaganda and flies against any and all of the evidence that we regularly observe, including the protests against working conditions that we are observing now

>This reads oddly like propaganda and flies against any and all of the evidence that we regularly observe

What evidence are you observing that has convinced you it's one way or the other?

I can go on Twitter and see some variant of the first comment and the second in almost every thread. What are you reading that you consider the "ground truth" that you can so easily point out the propaganda?

As a Canadian, I'm sure my sources are similar to yours, and I'm not really sure what the truth is. I assume it's somewhere in the middle. One thing I do know is that both "sides" are churning out propaganda at an unprecedented pace.

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