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South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

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Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#291

Post by onetimeusename »

scarface74 wrote: post #288
onetimeusename wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Japanese people who work at an all Japanese company feel they were diversity hires because their company did not hire Indians, Americans, and Chinese people who had nicer credentials?

Are you saying you are unable to compete in an open market? All of the Big Tech companies make a lot if their money internationally. Why shouldn’t they recruit worldwide? And holding up China and Japan as exemplars of economic development is not the winning argument you think it is…

>Are you saying you are unable to compete in an open market?

yes. ~350M vs ~7B (1.2B China, 1.1B India) means more elites in the bigger population. I am talking only about immigrant visas, not foreign offices. I have no problem with foreign offices hiring people from that country. I do take issue with continuous importation of elite-skilled people. This is doubly so if our education system relies on importing the best people rather than home growing them or trying to remain competitive. There is evidence Americans are declining in STEM right? we should try to reverse that.

I am less concerned about the short term economy as I am with turning the US into a global free for all for the best that US citizens can't possibly compete with presently. It could turn into a death cycle for current Americans. Surely that isn't sustainable or healthy. No doubt, dropping H1-B numbers would lower GDP but we should build it back more sustainably.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#292

Post by scarface74 »

onetimeusename wrote: post #291
scarface74 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying you are unable to compete in an open market? All of the Big Tech companies make a lot if their money internationally. Why shouldn’t they recruit worldwide? And holding up China and Japan as exemplars of economic development is not the winning argument you think it is…

>Are you saying you are unable to compete in an open market? yes. ~350M vs ~7B (1.2B China, 1.1B India) means more elites in the bigger population. I am talking only about immigrant visas, not foreign offices. I have no problem with foreign offices hiring people from that country. I do take issue with continuous importation of elite-skilled people. This is doubly so if our education system relies on importing the bes…

How is it in any way better to have a foreign office where none of the employees salary gets spent in the US than having immigration? Either way you are competing with foreign workers in aggregate.

And until this year, any CS grad that spent time practicing interviewing and could “grind LeetCode” for six months could get a job in tech. College teaches nothing that helps CS grads be employable at most companies.

Other countries graduate more prepared students because they don’t believe in the bullshit that college is meant to make you a “better citizen of the world” and they prepare their graduates with useful skills

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#293

Post by onetimeusename »

scarface74 wrote: post #288
onetimeusename wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Japanese people who work at an all Japanese company feel they were diversity hires because their company did not hire Indians, Americans, and Chinese people who had nicer credentials?

Are you saying you are unable to compete in an open market? All of the Big Tech companies make a lot if their money internationally. Why shouldn’t they recruit worldwide? And holding up China and Japan as exemplars of economic development is not the winning argument you think it is…

can't reply any further on other branch.

My theory is that it could open up more space in the top graduate schools and undergrad for Americans who didn't make the cut otherwise. Maybe we can improve on this. We could work on making standard education a little harder too to fill the gap we would need. It's going to be hard competing globally though. We may need to bring people in but I believe the numbers we have are very high right now. I would like to see the mean of america become more educated and richer and more skilled as opposed to just the extremes.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#294

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

onetimeusename wrote: post #289
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> none were Soviet citizens who came on work visas Many of them were from countries that were at war with the United States, like Germany and Italy. George Gamow, one of the most important American physicists ever, was born in Russia, educated in the USSR and began his career there, before defecting to the US. He didn't work on the Manhattan Project, but he did consult on other military projects during WWII. There ar…

Although a defector is not a temporary student or H1-B, yes it is complicated but you are saying there is no cause for concern even though clearly Soviet citizens would not have been allowed in such high numbers into important roles and I suspect people would rightly question the numbers if nearly half of all STEM graduate students were Russian right now. I call it a caste deliberately for those reasons. It is heredi…

H1-B visas didn't even exist in the 1940s. I don't know what the immigration system was like back then, except that it was fairly racist (this is before the reforms in the 1960s).

Most of the foreign-born STEM graduates I've come across in the US are not from a hereditary caste. I'd even say most of them are from the first generation in their families to obtain such a high level of education.

Legacy is something very different. It pertains mostly to undergraduate admissions at elite universities, and almost by definition, foreign-born students are not the main beneficiaries.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#295

Post by alexschnapp »

okasaki wrote: post #283
alexschnapp wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Broad public support" There is absolutely no basis to this claim unless there's an alternative party to compare to

So, they don't know what's good for them?

I never said that.

What do you mean by they don't know?

What are they going to do even if they did know?

It's not like they can (short of an armed rebellion) demand to have another political party or government.

It's like saying a thug is robbing me at gunpoint so I give him my wallet. You only observe that I give my wallet therefore giving that guy my wallet was good for me and fail to observe the gun.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#296

Post by scarface74 »

onetimeusename wrote: post #293
scarface74 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying you are unable to compete in an open market? All of the Big Tech companies make a lot if their money internationally. Why shouldn’t they recruit worldwide? And holding up China and Japan as exemplars of economic development is not the winning argument you think it is…

can't reply any further on other branch. My theory is that it could open up more space in the top graduate schools and undergrad for Americans who didn't make the cut otherwise. Maybe we can improve on this. We could work on making standard education a little harder too to fill the gap we would need. It's going to be hard competing globally though. We may need to bring people in but I believe the numbers we have are…

I think you overvalue the quality of CS programs even in elite schools to prepare graduates for real jobs compared to other countries.

BTW, click on the time on the post to reply when the reply link isn’t available.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#297

Post by kortilla »

chrischen wrote: post #255
kortilla wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? He doesn’t call everyone racist who criticizes the actions of the NZ government. It seems to only be CCP shills that struggle with this concept. Nobody in the US gets confused when someone from Europe complains about US government military actions and calls them racist. Perhaps you too can learn that criticisms of the CCP have nothing to do with the Chinese citizens?

> So what? He doesn’t call everyone racist who criticizes the actions of the NZ government. It seems to only be CCP shills that struggle with this concept. You’ve subtly insinuated that anyone pointing out some criticism of China must be calling everyone racist. Has it occurred to you that some are indeed racist? In fact it is not OP pointing out the poster is racist, but they explained why such random allegations ca…

When people are criticizing the actions of the Chinese government and someone labels them as racist or sinophobic, the accuser is not necessarily a CCP shill but they are repeating CCP propaganda.

The CCP uses pretty strong disinformation campaigns against any criticism of them with whataboutism and false equivalences of the Chinese people with the government to claim it is “racist”.

A flood of commenters crying “Sinophobia” every time there is an article about Muslim concentration camps, zero covid failures, etc gets quite old.

Even now, your comment is prattling on trying to equivocate the comments with racism despite it being very clearly about the CCP’s policies on TikTok.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#298

Post by dismantlethesun »

bjourne wrote: post #253
causi wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CCP is not a race. Working against companies under the control or influence of the CCP is no more "Sinophobic" than working against companies under the control or influence of the Nazi government was "Germanophobic".

It's jingoistic and sinophobic since the purpose of the "work against" is to strengthen your own team's position. By and large, Chinese human rights activists do not think banning TikTok strengthens human rights in China.

I think for the most part, people are annoyed about TikTok doing good things in its home country and yet doing 'bad' things in foreign countries.

Yes, it's true the good things it does at home are mandated by the government.

Yes, it's true that in foreign countries those same mandates would be difficult and in some cases (maybe the US?) unconstitutional.

However, that's a logical argument which doesn't speak to the heart of the disagreement: TikTok could do good in foreign nations, but it explicitly chooses not to. It'd be easy for them to copy and paste their policies from China into other countries, but they work very hard to fill the feed with entertainment because it makes more money.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#299

Post by dismantlethesun »

NLPlatypus wrote: post #278
bjourne wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's jingoistic and sinophobic since the purpose of the "work against" is to strengthen your own team's position. By and large, Chinese human rights activists do not think banning TikTok strengthens human rights in China.

You’re right. It’s very racist and bad to not support the government enslaving, neutering, force aborting, and imprisoning Muslims, supporting a government currently invading your allies, one that said it wants to make a new world order without you, take taiwan by force if needed, heavily censors content, etc… It can’t be any of that! No! It must be sinophobia! > Chinese human rights activists do not think banning Ti…

> Source?

While I agree with you. On the face, it doesn't seem logical that banning TikTok in a foreign country would make things better in China. Even if TikTok were a pure propaganda arm ala Voice of America, it still doesn't have much to do with the treatment of people at home (where by the way it has 'good' policies to foster the development of the youth).

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#300

Post by IncRnd »

hammock wrote: post #5

The bigger deal (bigger than the tracking that people usually focus on) might be how the algorithm is specifically tuned to reward dumb content in the US, compared to rewarding STEM and other educational content in China. One minute video that explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hus9fWz0RRk Further reading: https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

I'm not sure that is correct.

Tiktok is called douyin in China.

When I just went to douyin.com, the first douyin was entitled "the role I play in your life is too vague." That douyin showed a beautiful women eating yogurt as her jacket was perpetually fallen off her bare shoulder. The second douyin was a rap video that showed a women modeling various clothes in different environments.

There are government regulations in China that censor and disallow twerking content, but I didn't see any stem videos, either.

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