Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo • Hacker News Board

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#891

Post by gardenhedge » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

etchalon wrote: post #442

root_axis wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That analogy makes no sense. An iPhone isn't a restaurant. If Apple is McDonalds and Google is Burger King, who does Epic, Spotify, or Twitter correspond to in the analogy?

Make it literally any store, then. Target, Costco, Walmart, etc. You can't walk into Target, demand they carry your product, refuse to pay them a fee for doing so, while claiming Target has a "monopoly" on their customer because the customer isn't likely to drive across town to another store that does carry your product.

Poor analogy

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#892

Post by abstract_put » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 4:21 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #539

drawingthesun wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. As my business become more complicated and I become less a tech oriented student and more a "have to get the paperwork done for legal reasons" type person I went back to iPhone and never looked back. I noticed many people I know running very time consuming business to be iPhone users too, not having the time to tinker with Android. I notice my tech friends working in support love android, as their job doesn'…

That's a lot of stereotyping. Has it occurred to you that not every Android user wastes time to "tinker" with their phone and they're just normal people who use it like you do your iPhone? Android is not like Linux were it's exclusive to developers, geeks and tinkerers. The market share also exemplifies that it's just as much for average joes as iOS.

I have a hard time with threads like this because it feels like half the comments are straight out of an Apple ad. "It's simple", "It just works", "PC is some nerd twiddling bits but Mac is cool and gets things done". It feels like a cheap shot, but when "the nerds" are proclaiming Apple the one true OS the hacker ethic is really suffering.

My wife switched from Android to Apple, then Apple back to Android a couple times. Turns out they're really not that different, and the "simple" one is the one you're used to (noting in the Android ecosystem companies like Samsung really do a disservice by trying to stand out from stock in a different-but-no-better way).

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#893

Post by maccard » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 5:53 PM UTC

flohofwoe wrote: post #875

maccard wrote: post #870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's ok for it to be one companies choice but not another company? As a consumer it's not a meaningful choice if I have to use their platform, and I'd rather have the situation where the platform holder enforces consistency - they're not perfect but I know that having a Google account with Google Pay is enough to get me into 98+% of applications on android, and I'm not worried about having to _phone_ someone to ca…

Again, if you're happy with one app store there's no reason for you to use other app stores (eg I barely use other app stores than Steam, but I don't complain that there's EGS too). Other users may be just as happy with EGS and not use Steam at all. Maybe other stores focus on different product types (like retro games) or are generally better curated. yet other users might want to support a developer by buying direct…

> I really don't understand how this sort of choice can be considered a bad thing for users.

Because it's not user choice, it's publisher or developer choice. If I want to play Fortnite, I don't have a choice to play it on steam or EGS, and similarly if I want to play league of legends,I can't play it on steam. This sort of "choice" isn't a choice for the user, it forces them to be subject to the data protection and whims of every publisher whether they want to or not.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#894

Post by bamboozled » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 10:01 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #860

bamboozled wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine if every computer in the world, you could only use internet explorer, and they forced you to pay them 30%, and use IE. Absolutely nothing like this is happening though, so what's your point? I run Firefox on my iPhone, it's free? > But let's try a different example, since apparently you support the railway monopoly. I don't support the railway monopoly you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that break…

> I run Firefox on my iPhone, it's free? Actually, you run Safari. Firefox and Chrome on iOS are just Safari with some different browser chrome. This happens because Apple has banned all other browser and JavaScript engines on iOS other than their own. Gecko, SpiderMonkey, Blink, etc are all banned on iOS. Mozilla isn't able to actually bring real Firefox to iOS because of this, and has to settle with a reskinned Saf…

It's a good point, but I feel ok with it at the moment.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#895

Post by bamboozled » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 10:09 PM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #815

bamboozled wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine if every computer in the world, you could only use internet explorer, and they forced you to pay them 30%, and use IE. Absolutely nothing like this is happening though, so what's your point? I run Firefox on my iPhone, it's free? > But let's try a different example, since apparently you support the railway monopoly. I don't support the railway monopoly you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that break…

> Absolutely nothing like this is happening though, so what's your point? I am saying that the fact that this is illegal, because of the sherman anti-trust act, is a good thing. Anti-trust laws are not some crazy, extreme example of authoritarianism. Therefore, because I hope you can agree that it is good that we use government force, to prevent this, you cannot act in fake shock outrage, at the idea of using uncontr…

You seem to be trying very hard to convince me Apple truly is an evil company and without the government, it won't be. This is why I'm not keen to continue this thread.

This type of hyperbolic sentence: So, because Apple, in an authoritarian way, does not let you use your own property in this way, doesn't strengthen your argument, it weakens it.

Don't get my wrong, I understand it, Apple phones aren't an open source utopia where you can do whatever you like with it, you know as good as me that it's peoples choice to participate in that type of system and many choose to own a locked down device as a trade off for security, stability and convenience. People aren't rioting in the streets over this.

_People are choosing to enter the Apple eco-system for various reasons, there's no "Authoritarian regime" forcing you to use an iPhone._

Apple is popular because they make good products as far as I'm concerned and that's part of living in a free society. That someone can start a company that is successful like Apple and that people are allowed to buy Apple products, or not buy them.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#896

Post by bamboozled » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 10:10 PM UTC

satvikpendem wrote: post #879

bamboozled wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not Apple's problem the competition is mediocre, you advocating for the tearing up of Apple means we are left with only mediocre options, is that what you want?

Yes, that's what I want. I don't understand how there are so many Apple apologists on a hacker forum where ostensibly I'd have expected people would want to, you know, control their devices.

You want to control your device, others don't care for it. Live with it?

This is actually why people who are absolutists (you), scare me, because in a way, you're advocating for free an open devices, and asking for the government to step in to ensure this happens while actually acting like the authoritarian you claim to hate by forcing your beliefs onto others.

People should be free to choose what type of device they have without you telling people that shouldn't be allowed to choose.

I believe my argument is better than yours because I'm advocating for a balance. You can have free, open devices if you want, and if you don't want that you can use more locked down devices that IMO are just fully managed by Apple.Both options has their advantages and disadvantages, so what's the problem?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#897

Post by bamboozled » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 10:18 PM UTC

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

Yet I guarantee you in ten years there will be a market for the exact thing you're asking for, there will be a car maker who makes, "cars". Not subscriptions. Some people will buy those and some people won't.

Wouldn't it be only be a problem if you were forced against your will to drive a subscription model based car?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#898

Post by bamboozled » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 10:20 PM UTC

jvanderbot wrote: post #50

bamboozled wrote: post #43

Quoted post unavailable.

Spotify is the last subscription I'll cancel. It's been life changing since it came out. I never wanted it to curate music for me, I wanted a massive catalog I can summon at will. The fact that it does an ok job at curating lists is just bonus.

Not trying to argue that it's a "bad product" but it's good for you, I'm not so sur it's a net good for produces, musicians and people who like to maintain a library of music which is important to them long term?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#899

Post by FalconSensei » Sun, Dec 04, 2022, 5:11 AM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #177

hparadiz wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bootloader in on Samsung Android devices is extremely locked down to prevent rooting. Sideloading is a basic android feature. Ability to root and sideloading are two different but similar issues on the topic of freedom.

That's sorta the status-quo. But I'd fully support any legislation that mandates open bootloaders on all devices, definitely would help save the iPad from obscurity.

> help save the iPad from obscurity.

wait what? It's basically the most used/desired tablet, afaik, at least in Canada/US

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#900

Post by isitmadeofglass » Sun, Dec 04, 2022, 9:44 AM UTC

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

> What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it?

Thats literally what we have. What are you complaining about? For obvious reasons Apple is t going to support you if you jailbreak it, but that is absolutely reasonable of them.